Park Life

That's nice.

Is this the same Charles Lister based at the Brookings Insitute in Doha? That being the right wing think tank and the capital of Jihad financing then. "Many of the groups who fall within both these categories are armed factions the Islamist-averse United States’ CIA has already ‘vetted’ ...." You need to up your game bro.

I think you know the answers sweetie. There are shadow aims playing in the background or perhaps the key people don't know the truth. I certainly believe that the White House don't know what the Pentagon are doing in some areas. Isis would could be logistically hamstrung if we stopped Turkey buying or facilitating their oil trade (NATO member). But nobody even speaks of it although it is common knowledge as aerial imagery show lines of trucks on the Turkish border..Some hit recently by U.S. and Russia. The Americans were shamed into it by the Russians actually...NATO had been dropping leaflets 45min before strikes so many hightailed it outta there or hid the trucks or whatever... Threaten Saudi, Qatar and Turkey with sanctions and frozen bank accounts...The NSA/CIA can do that kind of thing in a matter of hours now. Stop all arms sales to the Gulf and put a 5 year moratorium on it. Disrupt logistical transfers through Turkey to the Jihad...Isis would be out of ammo in a few weeks. If the Gulf states take the piss use the U.S. bases as advance positions to topple the respective Govt...Go in nick all the oil and all the money and hang the fat bastards. This is really the easiest option.

Cameron's case is absolute piffle. This man is an airhead of Goodyear proportions and a script reading conman of Olympic proportions. Had a look at his warbling and there is no clear or responsible case for airstrikes and I don't trust him or the Tories not to be tempted by 'mission creep'. Or the odd strike here and there against Syrian forces which it seems as things stand puts us up against Russia very quickly. The airstrikes will make nobody safer at home as he reveled himself a number plots have already been foiled. I also think he is lying on a number of things as Blair did....There is a good case for Iraq as we have assets on the ground and good intelligence. The target packages for Syria are very muddled and the Americans themselves often have planes returning having not fired their payloads. So nobody should be fooled by U.S. missions flown - a lot of them come to nothing. Simply put we're at the point where Isis isn't target rich, it is blended in and dug in and rarely wanders around in vehicles when it can help it...So there is a very slim case for effective strikes that will degrade Isis. My gut feeling is that this is a classic show everything and tell nothing moment...There is a lot of shadow behind this highly propagandized NATO effort to get into Syria and I don't believe it will stop at airstrikes. The Russian system is working because they are calibrated with the Syrian army on the ground and others so they have spotters and real time information. Cameron didn't mention who ours are going to organised with...Because as we are fast becoming aware the FSA or what's left of it is made up (there are groups but not the major force that will beat Isis). NATO and the Gulf States have been backing Jihadi's of all varieties. These head choppers and heart eaters are Washington's 'moderates'. Labour must rise to the occasion and I'm heartened to hear the news about Corbyn. There are plenty of doubters on the Tory side as well. This might be Corbyns' moment. * He said 70,000. He's inc the Kurds in that the joker...They aren't interested in a wider war. I don't if the rest are farmer or what cause if there really is 70,000 FSA then Isis are in serious shit.

Pilger on Isis.

That seems to be the media narrative.

The whole hiatus around Corbyn is that he has broadened the narrative, regardless of his electability he is trying to re lens the debate in the Labour Party around its original core values. With a Tory party creating this veneer of inlclusiveness its right that Labour needs to stand on its founding principles. Research shows that this is perhaps a message that a generation is hearing for the first time.

Yup.

The chamber half empty on such an important debate.

CT this is getting ridiculous. Please come to your senses.

A few airstrikes from us will make no strategic difference and put UK citizens in harms way. I can't see any rationale behind it.

Cameron will look like da man. I imagine Isis are ready to go in London as soon as the first airstrikes go in.

We blatantly don't need Trident. All 60billion of it. We're in NATO and we can use nukes in dozens of other ways now. Trident is a Warsaw pact legacy. Think the Americans have the firing codes anyway.. It might also be an idea to get ourselves off the Russian priority strike list by getting rid of the offensive American bases and just let them use the listening stations. All these guppy countries that have agreed to the missile defence pact with America are gonna get nuked first. Germany has postponed the agreed American base for 5 years which keeps it on the B or even C list.

If we stay in the EU it won't matter who's running England in 2020. They're churning out 6,000 or summink bits of legislation a year and the goal is greater Federalism it says so in all their main documents.

Disliked around the country AND the 1922 committee.

The career politicians will stay away from Labour for a bit so there won't be so much ambition and bright eyes to choose from...

I'm genuinely interested in what others think.

BLOODLINES!!!

I need some spec to go on...Lay it down and I'll ponder it. I need to know if people are going large or tickling underbellies.

Fixed.

Patchy recoveries in the UK are normally tied to house prices and QE. They normally last 2/3 years before downward compression starts (money supply/private debt/ wage stagnation). There is a voodoo like fear here with reg to soft state intervention (as practiced in Germany). Like that football handbook on how German football was transformed we need to nick the other one on how Engineering and Chemical Ind will save the world.... The other slight of hand is that greater and greater amounts of white goods (Siemens, Bosch) are made in Turkey and finished in Germany to get the EU badge and a lot of the motor industry has been moved out to Poland, Slovakia and Hungary. I note that Audi's largest engine plant is in Hungary. Eu expansion has always been about access to cheap labour markets. One of the fav German tricks is loading up a new EU country with grants and infrastructure from EU funds (our money) and then parachuting in German industry to take advantage of it. Basically our political class are just too thick. JLR has been one of our success stories...But.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11176184/Jaguar-Land-Rover-opens-milestone-China-plant.html In the 80's Capitalism in the West was making some of its biggest profits and instead of re-investing that locally they moved manufacturing out to utilize lower wages in the Far East and so on...Been downhill since then.

Recovery slowest since records began. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/recovery-of-uk-economy-slowest-ever-say-unions-10432717.html. It's only a matter of time before China's middle class overtake ours. We simply have to find a way to reignite the manufacturing base. Low interest rates are a big help but inward investment is the key. The problem we have now is the EU regulations reg state investment and protectionism. The Germans have a way round this but I can't remember what it is...

Looks like NATO are backing away from Turkey a bit. Hope common sense prevails. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/uk-mideast-crisis-usa-pentagon-idUKKBN0TD1X520151124