Park Life

Some of your points are well made but you're confusing me as to why you re-iterate the notion that we no longer had the resources to strengthen the defence. Your attitude borders on some sought of propaganda campaign! 1) A team can have the most limited budget, i.e. £0, and still sign Campbell, Woodgate (loan), Johnson (loan), Trabelsi (pay as you play). Why you keep forgetting this is quite bemusing. 2) The club made a late bid for Huth and Viduka proving there was more money to spend, therefore the budget wasn't as 'limited' as you presume. The above are facts yet you seem to show no interest in consistently including them in your thinking. As to whose fault it was that we didn't sign them, i don't know. I don't presume it was Shepherd, the club have spent heavily under his stewardship and for that i can have little complaint. But something went very wrong in our approach to the transfer window. We needed defenders and could have had them for an outlay of £0 yet we only signed Bernard, whose yet to play because he is sooooo out of practice. We don't have to say who, because we don't know, but someone at NUFC f**ked up in no small way over the summer just gone. These are hardly revelations I am not excusing anything. I realise we could have signed those players. However, does it simply not occur to you the manager didn't want them ? And in my view, he is fully justified for not wanting Woodgate [as we have enough injury prone players], Campbell [looking for a last pay day and may not really have his heart in it] . As for players signing for Man City, it is slightly ironic that Newcastle fans are slagging off their club for not signing free transfer players, yet Man City fans are slagging off their club for signing free transfer players and not paying money for bargain players such as Damien Duff when they have the opportunity ? So who, on this evidence, would like to swap our board with Man city ---- a club that has won domestic trophies and been ahead of us for the vast majority of the 30 years previous to our current board taking over the club. Does it occur to you that the club may have been hoping for Huth and viduka;s fees to lower as the deadline approached ? Or do you think that as they are strapped for cash they should have spent it anyway ? And , surely if Huth signed for the smogs on deadline day it at least shows fuckwits like Dan that contrary to what he appears to think, making last minute transfer deals is hardly a phenonema dominated by only NUFC ? How come the great chairman Steve gibson allows his club to get involved in "panic pre deadline transfers ? The club cannot sign every player YOU think they should. Its unrealistic and daft tbh, but I suspect that YOU may realise that, unlike some of the more idiotic on here. Some of your post does not really seem as a response to mine so i expect you are feeling you are having to answer lots of people in one go, sympathies extended. Re: Bit in bold. That is my completely uninformed reading of the situation. Roeder obviousley passed over the players we've mentioned because he believed he could get someone more suitable. Unfortunately, he didn't. I might also add that the players mentioned are an improvement on our current squad, imo. What i find puzzling is that there was no evident 'plan B.' Roeder said (after signing Martins) that he really didn't have anyone else in mind and i didn't believe him (at the time). However, the lack of any alternative to Huth has made me rethink. Personally, i find this a very naive way for a Prem manager to plan. What happenned to the days when teams signed promising players from the lower leagues and bedded them in through the reserve system. You can't tell me the scouts haven't identifyied 2 or 3 good defenders in their early twenties who couldn't make an impact for us in the next season or two. It's a mystery to me.

I can't see why not, Arsenal don't play with a big man up front and IMO they play the best football in the league, Wenger has said before that he doesn't play a target man as players will often play long balls rather than keep it on the ground. But then again Arsenal don't have Bramble twatting it upfield every time he gets the ball. That is one thing that HAS to STOP.

You woulds say that, closet scouser What's that about a closet? Didn't see the game. But the posts make familiar reading in the we did alright vain. I look at it this way, if we had gone to Anfield with some semblence of a defence and some vague clue how to make openings with our front talent we could have got 3 points. Liverpool have yet to gel this season and this was a good chance to get summat from this difficult fixture. Roeder isn't good enough, he is average and has no charisma and will never get players to play beyond their abilities - a vital component in making a mid- table outfit into one that will press for a top 5 place.

No he's not really that fast, but seems quite hard to shrug off the ball.

Let me know when it's up 9.

The difference is that Hugo is sitting in a field with cattle behind him, Bush normally has the cattle in front of him.

You keep saying that but its not exactly the truth is it. Firstly he made the mistake of not sacking SBR when he should and then sacking him early in the season with no back up plan. Thats two mistakes already. He then didn't make a bad appointment, he made THE worst appointment possible which is more than just a little mistake. He made two further mistakes in paying Blackburn compensation instead of waiting for them to sack him and secondly giving him a massive contract worth a fortune which has cost us millions. And he didn't "just correct it" at all. He hired him, watched a truly awful season, including several key incidents that showed Souness to be worse than we thought possible and he failed to sack him when to do anything other than that was moronic. He then gave a man who had shown himself to be grossly incompetent, money to spend pre-season (another mistake) and having watched yet more shite from Souness' team he still failed to sack him even though we were a complete embarassment (another mistake). Then finally and way too late he eventually made the right decision and sacked him, but again had no plan in place even though he'd been watching shite for months and should have had the forsight to get something lined up. From when Bobby should have left to the current day, Fred has made a string of mistakes not just one. We've already pointed out that us and Liverpool were practically identical not long ago and the different actions of their board and ours as seen the two clubs worlds apart now. 190983[/snapback] I think he never really made his mind up about Souness or started to think about a replacement till about two weeks before he sacked him. Hence no-one had been sounded out.

possibly not, but with a smalll squad, and having already shelled out 15-16m quid. Thats the point. We knew, or should have done, that the Souness legacy was this, or at least some of us said so. We would be better off if Bellamy and Robert were still here, agreed ? And considering he wanted them out so desperately we got 4m quid for the 2 of them, who can possibly defend THAT ? 189826[/snapback] You do understand the Chairmen has to OK all sales right. Souness didn't do it behind the fat ones back. 189832[/snapback] you do understand that chairman are supposed to allow their managers to run the playing side of the club, right ? So, if he DID veto any transfers on playing grounds, which appears to be what you are indicating you want, you would have a lot to say wouldn't you ? Seriously, I have my doubts, it seems the vast amount of people on here don't seem to understand this ..... nor the financial state of the club, mostly brought about by the last manager, despite it being as clear as the glass in front of your face. 190603[/snapback] In any business it is commonplace for the head of the business to have final say on major investments. In some cases that investment is their idea. In others not.Responsible management dictates that this has to happen. Responsible chairmen also employ responsible and well qualified staff. That is their duty, not only to the business but to the shareholders. He has failed on both counts. I accept he needs to give managers the ability to decide but he has gone into this issue far too recklessly and it is absolutely nobodies fault bit his own that the 'bottomless pit' is no more. 190614[/snapback] He hasn't failed. We have been the 5th top club in the country over the past decade, and appeared regularly in europe, filling the ground, and buying major international players. There are 86 clubs who have done worse than us, including one 12 miles down the road. Since this board took over this club in 1992 they have picked it up and established it back to one of the top clubs in the country. Fact. I'm not interested in stupid skyboy type views. 190671[/snapback] Read it again please. His responsibility is to emply decent people. So now you are saying Souness wasnt a failure and telling Bobby he had one year left wasnt crass management precipitating the shit we are in now?Liverpool were as badly off as us but took decisive action. He had the chance ot address that earlier in the year and failed. Freddie didnt take decisive action at all other than in telling Bobby he could piss off and if that isnt mismanagement I dont know what is. 190712[/snapback] This is what i've always said and is the perfect yarstick by which to judge Fat Fred. Us and Pool were practically identical in terms of league position, performance over recent seasons, and swap Gerard from there to here and we'd have been safely ahead of them... Their chairman did his job, sacked a manager (who'd won more than ours) at the right time and scoured europe for a world class coach and gave him a pre season to work with and they're now leagues ahead of us. Our chairman kept a manager who was now past it, then hamstrung him with his moronic comment in the press, then sacked him with no backup plan. Then made the worst appointment i think i've ever seen, including paying Blackburn for a manager they were about to sack. Then kept this dick on after a season of abject shite, then kept him on again when he started shite, then gave him milions to waste, then sacked him with wait for it...no back up plan! Anyone who looks at Pool and us now and doesn't blame Fat Fred is Fat Fred! 190737[/snapback] The Liverpool comparison is by far the best one imo. We've had almost the same amount of cash as them to spend.

2nd biggest joke in the thread. So Dalglish, Gullit, Robson and even fuckwit himself weren't "big name" managers ? And how many managers can you name me who match Dalglish's track record ? Fookin hilarious ....... 190693[/snapback] Aha, Leazes displays another superpower that's got him far in this thread. Reading stuff out of context. When I say appoint a big name manager I wasn't talking about 1997, you tit. I was talking about April/May 2005 when apparently big names from all over the world were climbing over each other to get the job and we plumped for the man with a less than satisfying track record. Don't get me wrong I am grateful for Roeder getting us out of the shit last year but Carver beat Blackburn 3-0 when Robson left which was probably our most convincing win that year, Freddy didn't go on and appoint him did he? Freddy didn't appoint Roeder because of his talent, he appointed Pigeon Heed because he's a puppet and he knows he's lucky to have the Newcastle job. 190707[/snapback] We didn't even appraoch Hiddink or Van Basten both quoted widely about wanting to get back into club football.

5th best ball in the country though 190703[/snapback] ......someone has joined the top of the five up with a black marker though.

Exactly. And for people who go on about our spending we have spent way less than Liverpool witha similar turnover..Not only that nearly all out big buys recently have turned out to be cack.

This is the crux of the problem, investing too much in single players. In what way could Roeder prefer Oba to Anelka, its like he lives on a different football planet or summat. Trabelsi would have been good.

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink. 190118[/snapback] My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. 190124[/snapback] Is this another MI6 contact? The annoying thing is the likes of Hiddink and Hitzfeld were available along with O'Neill (Hitzfeld being available when Souness got the job too btw) and the fat one took the easy, cheap option and went for Roeder. 190135[/snapback] The main problem Al is that the fat one I suspect has too much to hide and is too set in his ways with this Geordie lark. I compare us to HSV in Hamburg where I have lived for a year and with limited resorces, (half our more or less than ours) Doll has done wonders and has singed the sort of players we should have been signing. Van der Vaart for a palty €4.5 (4 times the player Emre is)..Van Buyten, De Jong..etc..HSV have always had money troubles and have only stabalised in the last 3 or 4 years, but what a turnaround..With a new management structure and fresh serious outlook, I expect they are only one or two seasons away from challenging Bayern for the title. All on half our buget if it look at raw spend on talent. Incidentally the manager I would have considered apart from O'neill and Hiddink is: Mancini: a deep understanding of the compressed short game. Charisma and confidence to spare. 190164[/snapback] I still beleive the main reason we didn't get a top manager is cause fatty has too much to hide regarding transfers and won't let our managers get too involved in it...He see's it like money sloshing around in a barrel rather than what player we actually need. Souness was chosen primarily cause he is as dodgy as FS...The Boumsong deal bears this out. No way on earth we paid £8m to Rangers!

Can't see where I am being blinkered, in fact I think the majority of people on here who seem either oblivious to the financial position of the club - through a lack of intelligence or just because they are deluded enough to think we can just spend what we like - are the blinkered ones. And for what its worth, as a squad player for a small fee Sibierski is alright - bearing in mind again our budget - whereas my main worry is Martins because if he flops, that is another 10m quid down the plug, and this is the type of signing who has created the position that we are in now ie Luque, Boumsong, and many others before those over previous years. 190617[/snapback] If you can point to a single person on here who has said we can spend what we like I'll be amazed. Straw man stuff from you as per usual. Re: the bit in bold, who's fault is it if we're making the same mistake we did last summer? 190628[/snapback] .......and we still bought the wrong striker and another midfielder when we patently need a defender with his head screwed on forwards.

possibly not, but with a smalll squad, and having already shelled out 15-16m quid. Thats the point. 189826[/snapback] That's exactly the point ffs. With a small squad, we shouldn't have shelled out 15m quid on two players in the knowledge that it left us brassic. And before you blame Roeder, if he's too stupid to realise that, then it's up to Shepherd as his boss to point that out to him. Are you fucking getting this yet for christ's sake?? Agree we are buying with our eyes and not our bellies.

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink. 190118[/snapback] My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. 190124[/snapback] Is this another MI6 contact? The annoying thing is the likes of Hiddink and Hitzfeld were available along with O'Neill (Hitzfeld being available when Souness got the job too btw) and the fat one took the easy, cheap option and went for Roeder. 190135[/snapback] The main problem Al is that the fat one I suspect has too much to hide and is too set in his ways with this Geordie lark. I compare us to HSV in Hamburg where I have lived for a year and with limited resorces, (half our more or less than ours) Doll has done wonders and has singed the sort of players we should have been signing. Van der Vaart for a palty €4.5 (4 times the player Emre is)..Van Buyten, De Jong..etc..HSV have always had money troubles and have only stabalised in the last 3 or 4 years, but what a turnaround..With a new management structure and fresh serious outlook, I expect they are only one or two seasons away from challenging Bayern for the title. All on half our buget if it look at raw spend on talent. Incidentally the manager I would have considered apart from O'neill and Hiddink is: Mancini: a deep understanding of the compressed short game. Charisma and confidence to spare.

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink. 190118[/snapback] My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him.

All part of the big pic though. The other thing about appointing a good European coach is that you in one swoop double your knowledge base of players from those countries and playing styles. This has been the case with Wenger, Mourinho, Rafa and Jol. The clubs we should be competing with have the jump on us regarding sourcing talent from their home countries and bringing fresh and new outlooks.

There is a well respected school of thought that a big name manager breeds confidence in prospective transfer targets. How would Hiddink have fared I wonder in getting in 5 or 6 quality players we need (especially 2 defenders). Instead we hear talk of Roeder desperately flying around Europe watching games...Well Hiddink with the benefit of internaltional experience and in-depth knowledge of the Dutch game would have (after a couple of clicks on his database) signed 2 solid Dutch defenders...names like Heitinga, Vlaar, Mathissijen etc come to mind. I believe the core of the issue is that prospective targets see us as a problem club now with a no mark manager (who hasn't even got his badges ffs!!). So we end up paying over the odds in fees and wages to cajole them in. Martins for £10m!! Ridiculous..we could have had Anelka for £7 or Babel for about the same or even less. The buck has to stop with Roeder he has had about 4 months no less to get this window right and set out his stall...The fact we haven't signed a single defender will come back to haunt him. I have a bad feeling as well that the strength in depth other clubs have after this window the likes of Pompey and West Ham and obvioulsy Spurs will make it a long hard season. I can't see us finishing in the top 8 never mind top 6.

And blatantly offside. 189424[/snapback] Tbf he will just be a back up.

For God sake!! Will this club ever buy and decent defenders??

I have a feeling this transfer window is the beginning and ending of Roeder.

We're holding up, just having a good laugh. 189355[/snapback] My god!! Has it come to this?!

He's much smaller than I thought. I have an open mind on him. He does look uncomfortable on the ball at pace, unlike say Anelka who caresses it. But a good finish I'm told. Good for 15 or so goals nay probs.

You know how they love to dance under a full moon at midnight.