Park Life

Will go back and find it...Here is the CBS variant. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/...main589137.shtm Page has been deleted! ...and this... http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/07/nac.00.html

I play the carinet I'll have you know...Perfect cover.

I'm looking for it. Try and remain civil fella.

Will go back and find it...Here is the CBS variant. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/...main589137.shtm Page has been deleted! Christ they're quick...I was looking at it just this morning...However try this.. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/linkscopy/ContPlan.html and this... http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11...ne_exercise.htm

Will go back and find it...Here is the CBS variant. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/...main589137.shtm

One of my faves from last year.

Can't remember the question. But serioulsy have a look at this Al: "The whole system knew that planes had been and could be used by Al Qaeda as weapons, and had worked to prevent that happening in Genoa at the summit that summer when warning signals were high, protecting Bush specifically against planes. Warnings from foreign intelligence agencies of such a plot were received all through the summer and early fall, as well as specific forewarnings not to fly on 9/11 to Pentagon Brass, foreign officials and the mayor of San Francisco. Exercises and preparations were taken in 1998-2000 to secure the Pentgagon against a plane attack with radar and cameras, and to test emergency response procedures. NORAD was on full readiness alert, with planes waiting on the runways as part of an exercise that day called Vigilant Guardian. There had been earlier exercises involving planes used as weapons as well. NORAD is capable of tasking any available plane. Standard operating procedures in any single, even private plane air emergencies for an immediate FAA/NORAD response were not followed at all on 9/11 despite multiple large commuter planes off course, without transponders and not communicating with towers, which later were clearly known to be hijackings. Not only were no NORAD intercept planes scrambled for well over half an hour after the first plane gave indications of trouble at 8:17 am, NONE were ever scrambled to defend DC and P-56, the most protected air space in the country. Available planes in Canada were not scrambled, which regularly protect New York air space. Available planes at Andrews AFB and Anacostia NAS proximate to DC were not scrambled. Planes scrambled from Langley AFB, 130 miles south of DC, were sent to NYC and asked to confirm the hit on the Pentagon on the way there. In addition, planes scrambled from Otis AFB in CT, sent too late to intercept the two NY attack planes, turned to intercept Flight AA77 headed to DC and were called back. Fighter pilots from Pomona AFB in Atlantic City, NJ, on military maneuvers, within sight of the first tower burning in NYC were called back to base. Planes in the air over North Carolina, based out of Andrews AFB were not tasked. Normal response time in over 65 other air emergencies in the year before 9/11, in far less serious circumstances, was an average of 6-10 minutes. On 9/11 the time stretched to over an hour."

"NORAD was unusually prepared on 9/11, because it was conducting a week-long semiannual exercise called Vigilant Guardian. On 9/11, North American Aerospace Defense Command's (Norad) Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) was fully staffed, its key officers and enlisted supervisors already manning the operations center "battle cab." [Aviation Week] COLONEL ROBERT MARR, US AIR FORCE: We had the fighters with a little more gas on board. A few more weapons on board. [...] We had 14 aircraft on alert, seven sites, two aircraft at each site. [ABC News] That's a ratio of 3.5 'hot' fighter jets per hijacked airliner." Laters muppets.

The Pentagon isn't protected air space, there is a HUGE civilian air port almost on its door step. The military radars would have seen dozens or even hundreds of planes at the time, all trying to land, at an airport like, erm, Dulles or Ronald Reagan. Everything air traffic controllers do is logged to precision for obvious reasons. The radar path, the conversations, everything is recorded. For this information to be modified they would HAVE to be in on it.

Saw "Letters from Iwo Jima" last night. Absolute nailed on masterpiece. Recommend to all.

I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. Answer that (previously ignored question) then: If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, were the bits of the passenger airline (consistent with the missing plane) that were recovered from the scene afterwards planted there (in the full glare of the media spotlight) after the missile(s) hit? Seen as you know so much. I can't answer your question by the way, I honestly don't know enough about it. I seriously question the credibilty of any unsupported info you supply though Parkster. You and Renton (blissfully unaware of the extensive radar cover as I now realise). Again do you think it is credible that Andrews and Norad would miss this elephant heading for the Pentagon? Can't answer the question? Thought not. Btw, the fact you took until now to mention the RADAR thing suggests you've been googling away since yesterday. Well done It's better to let people who think they are taking the piss make monkeys of themselves before revealing your true analysis....Playground stuff really.

So he made it up then? Class His credibility would be in tatters if it hadn't already been ripped to shreds. I meant to say Pentagon airspace Rob. You'd know the differance not these two jokers... I will add "tatters" to "loons" and the other long list..... You and Renton clearly know nothing of the details you didn't even know about the 3 radars ffs!! Clearly wasting my time.

I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. You have to ask yourself how credible the alternative is, bearing in mind all the questions you have dodged in this thread. Contrary to popular belief there are not military jets scrambled 24/7 (not then anyway), and there was a great deal of confusion at the time. As has been said, there were thousands of civilian jets in the air at the time and the civilian authorities were slow to react to contact the military. Regardless, are you saying the civilian authorities were in on it, despite the fact the CIA weren't? Yes or no will do. How stupid are you to even consider that a civilina authority could be 'in on' a possible conspiracy. I really don't see why they would have to be in on it....Just avoiding my question above and throwing around a lot of cobblers about the 'the milkman' having to be in on it etc... You don't see why they would have to be in on it? No offence mate, that's idiotic, end of thread. What the airtraffic controllers? Were they offerred a Mars bar and an extra 5 min coffee break? I'm sure you'd love to end the thread. Again it is on public record the civilian air traffic spotted the plane headed for the Pentagon airspace and this is logged (not sure why they would have to be in on anything). I'm sure at the same time Norad and Andrews would have known (especially if the transponder was turned off....Do you know if it was?). BUT did this 'plane' hit the Pentagon. I still think the evidence is inconclusive. WHY DON'T HE JUST RELEASE THE FOOTAGE OF A BIG WHITE ELEPHANT HITTING THE PENTGON??

I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. Answer that (previously ignored question) then: If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, were the bits of the passenger airline (consistent with the missing plane) that were recovered from the scene afterwards planted there (in the full glare of the media spotlight) after the missile(s) hit? Seen as you know so much. I can't answer your question by the way, I honestly don't know enough about it. I seriously question the credibilty of any unsupported info you supply though Parkster. You and Renton (blissfully unaware of the extensive radar cover as I now realise). Again do you think it is credible that Andrews and Norad would miss this elephant heading for the Pentagon?

I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. You have to ask yourself how credible the alternative is, bearing in mind all the questions you have dodged in this thread. Contrary to popular belief there are not military jets scrambled 24/7 (not then anyway), and there was a great deal of confusion at the time. As has been said, there were thousands of civilian jets in the air at the time and the civilian authorities were slow to react to contact the military. Regardless, are you saying the civilian authorities were in on it, despite the fact the CIA weren't? Yes or no will do. How stupid are you to even consider that a civilina authority could be 'in on' a possible conspiracy. I really don't see why they would have to be in on it....Just avoiding my question above and throwing around a lot of cobblers about the 'the milkman' having to be in on it etc...

I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon also comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for planes and other threats to the Pentagon. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question.

No one suggests they were in on it....But in all the panic and confusion who really knows what they were looking at. In the official report apparently they thought there were as many as 13 hijacked planes in the air at one point. Does that mean they didn't know which planes were which? I wouldn't have thought so. ....I would say there was serious doubt at certain points in this fiasco and under the intense pressure they really had a handle on what was in the air. Of course after an hour or so there was very little or nothing in the sky....But the plane/missile/drone had already hit the Pentagon.

I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert...

I don't know I don't like making assumptions. but a 757 is huge where are all the bits? Not much left when a plane full of fuel hits a reinforced concrete wall at 400 mph. The aluminium would vapourise almost entirely, other parts were clearly identified. There was a clear hole in the wall where the left engine struck, and the black boxes were recovered. How much more evidence do you want, bearing in mind air traffic control, phone calls, etc? Kevin is right the evidence a plane hit the Pentagon is not conclusive hence hundreds of thousands of doubters in the States. Of course if they would release the footage we could kiss this one goodbye. What proportion of the population of the US claim to have been abducted by Aliens again? Probably the same amount that vote for Bush. You want it both ways don't you?

No one suggests they were in on it....But in all the panic and confusion who really knows what they were looking at. In the official report apparently they thought there were as many as 13 hijacked planes in the air at one point.

I don't know I don't like making assumptions. but a 757 is huge where are all the bits? Not much left when a plane full of fuel hits a reinforced concrete wall at 400 mph. The aluminium would vapourise almost entirely, other parts were clearly identified. There was a clear hole in the wall where the left engine struck, and the black boxes were recovered. How much more evidence do you want, bearing in mind air traffic control, phone calls, etc? Shite how much heat does it take to completely vapourise many tonnes of aluminium and plastic. Why have other crashes not done so?. Which bits? The plane took 40 minutes after the first plane hit the twin tower to hit the pentagon. They seem a little Laissez faire for me. I think I know what you're getting at but do you know how many internal flights there are in the US in a single day? It's in the tens of thousands iirc. We should all really check how long after the first hit that all planes in the sky were grounded. I'll be honest I'm not sure, in the report they say nothing was in the Sky within one hour. But what does that mean? Very little was in the sky after 20/30min?

I don't know I don't like making assumptions. but a 757 is huge where are all the bits? Not much left when a plane full of fuel hits a reinforced concrete wall at 400 mph. The aluminium would vapourise almost entirely, other parts were clearly identified. There was a clear hole in the wall where the left engine struck, and the black boxes were recovered. How much more evidence do you want, bearing in mind air traffic control, phone calls, etc? Kevin is right the evidence a plane hit the Pentagon is not conclusive hence hundreds of thousands of doubters in the States. Of course if they would release the footage we could kiss this one goodbye.