Christmas Tree

Cause its 2010 and most are dropping the kids off on the way to work to earn money and pay taxes towards your retirement.

I've never apologised for advocating class warfare - as far as I'm concerned the war was declared by them centuries ago. And which class are we talking about.....The disney make believe one? The real scum bag underclass, the 2 car home owning working class, the 3 car, detatched house owning middle class?????

I've never apologised for advocating class warfare - as far as I'm concerned the war was declared by them centuries ago. Not really even sure what either of these statements means, particularly in day to day life.

If they win, will it be a coincidence that the two most powerful men in the UK will have gone to the same most expensive school in the country, or will it say something about privilege in the tory party? If they win, it's down to the electorate surely? Yes, but what's your point? Do you think its an indication the tory party are the party of the priviliged or not? I couldnt care less how the person was educated as long as they are "able" to do the job. However in this day and age I would have thought the better educated the better. Perish the thought of John Prescott flying the world as leader. Do you seriously think going to Eton provides you with better qualities to lead the country than going to a normal school? Keeps you in touch with the average guy? I've been accused as an inverted snob on this thread (with some justification) but your last comment reeks of good old school snobbery. Ive put it in Bold because you must have missed it first time round. OK then I'll rephrase, do you think that a persons upbringing may affect the job they do, in a political sense? What do you actually mean by 'do a good job'. For instance, is wealth generation your main concern for this country or do you have concerns about equality? First part of your question is a how longs a piece of string question. Their upbringing may effect them in a good or bad way. Someone whose had a poor upbringing may bring a chip on the shoulder to the table with them. Someone who has been very privelidged may have an overwhelming desire to give back. With regard to your second point, one can help create the other and a good government looks at the problems of the day and acts accordinly. An irresponsible government (traditionally labour) spends too much on the needy causes without first generating the wealth, hence fucking up the finances.

If they win, will it be a coincidence that the two most powerful men in the UK will have gone to the same most expensive school in the country, or will it say something about privilege in the tory party? If they win, it's down to the electorate surely? Yes, but what's your point? Do you think its an indication the tory party are the party of the priviliged or not? I couldnt care less how the person was educated as long as they are "able" to do the job. However in this day and age I would have thought the better educated the better. Perish the thought of John Prescott flying the world as leader. Do you seriously think going to Eton provides you with better qualities to lead the country than going to a normal school? Keeps you in touch with the average guy? I've been accused as an inverted snob on this thread (with some justification) but your last comment reeks of good old school snobbery. Ive put it in Bold because you must have missed it first time round.

I'm neither pro-Tory, anti-Labour or vice versa so therefore I must be Sorry, in my flurry of posts I thought I was directing that at CT. You see thats where you are wrong. Things I like / dislike from all parties. Was very hopeful when NEW labour got in but they never quite lived up to their promise. (Blair being Bush's poodle scuppered any real good they could have done) Cameron and Osbourne dont really appeal to me but I prefer to look past the personality a bit and see what the policies are unlike some of you who will vote Labour because you always do. The problem as Happy Face or Alex commented on is the absolute knats willies difference between the two parties. It may be worthwhile someone chucking up some real differences between a cameron government and a Brown one. (Based on actual policies rather than "Cameron will steal your first born, brown wont" crap)

If they win, will it be a coincidence that the two most powerful men in the UK will have gone to the same most expensive school in the country, or will it say something about privilege in the tory party? If they win, it's down to the electorate surely? Yes, but what's your point? Do you think its an indication the tory party are the party of the priviliged or not? I couldnt care less how the person was educated as long as they are "able" to do the job. However in this day and age I would have thought the better educated the better. Perish the thought of John Prescott flying the world as leader.

If they win, will it be a coincidence that the two most powerful men in the UK will have gone to the same most expensive school in the country, or will it say something about privilege in the tory party? It will say something about the electorate

So what was Lloyd George's contribution? Karma Chameleon

But you cant for all time hold every conservative government responsible for what a previous government did? Where would you draw the line in history? Not just the Thatcher government though was it? Historically tory governments have always been about representing the affluent and priveleged, and the South of England. Have you seen the make up of the present tory party? Virtually all went to private schools, and most of them not even 'normal' private schools at that. Cameron and Osbourne, obviously the most significant tories, are both Etonians ffs. What on Earth makes you think this particular blue leopard will change its spots? Because they have a tree drawn by a 5 year old as their logo? While not a great political historian, I am quite confident your comments have little truth or sense behind them. Others will be more informed on the subject but didnt the tories introduce the pension, unemployment benefit and carry out massive social housing and school building programs in the pre second world ward days? Hardly representing the affluent!!! I am sure there are plenty of other great achievements by Tory governments. And as for having a go at potential leaders of the country for going to a very good school!!!!! Would you rather they went to Bensham comp? Were the tories ever responsible for the things you mention? I don't honestly know, hopefully someone else does, but its telling you have to go back over 70 years to name any examples of how they have benefitted 'the common man'. They were resolutely against the foundation of the NHS though, I know that much. More fundamentally they obviously do not have socialist values by definition. I'd rather have a leader based on merit, not privilege, wherever they're from. A person from Bensham has as much right to lead this country as one of those silver-spooned nobheads imo. Tell that to all the commen folk who now own their council house. Nice to know Thatcher's bribe still has sway with people. Pity it has resulted in a housing crisis for so many people though, who now can't afford to buy their own property but can't find decent accomodation to rent. This is all part of the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude which has plagued our society since the 80s imo. Where are they all then??? And lets not forget, Labour has had 13 years to address any housing shortage.

But you cant for all time hold every conservative government responsible for what a previous government did? Where would you draw the line in history? Not just the Thatcher government though was it? Historically tory governments have always been about representing the affluent and priveleged, and the South of England. Have you seen the make up of the present tory party? Virtually all went to private schools, and most of them not even 'normal' private schools at that. Cameron and Osbourne, obviously the most significant tories, are both Etonians ffs. What on Earth makes you think this particular blue leopard will change its spots? Because they have a tree drawn by a 5 year old as their logo? That argument about private education doesn't really wash with me I'm afraid Renton. Yes, both of them when to private but significant members of the Labour Party likely did the same. And as for the blue leopard not changing its spots, are you forgetting that John Major left Grammar School at 16 with only 3 'O' Levels? They went to Eton Craig, not any normal public school. It's a matter of degree as well - yes some Labour MPs went to private schools but the proportion is much less than it is for the tories. John Mayor is irrelevant, two Etonians carry the tory torch tree now, they're reverting back to type. You'd have been better citing Thatcher actually, she wasn't especially privileged, I'll give her that. Why? Because he doesn't fit into your model? From a neutral perspective your view appears to be very biggotted. Always had him down as a snob This is the problem with politics. It should be about judging the people standing on their own personal merits / political history and the program of government (manifesto) being put forward. To simply always vote one way because of a particular bias is just plain stupid imo.

Any of the previous governments could have addressed the shortage if they had so desired.

I have my "impression" of how the Tories have always been passed doen by my parents. I know that sounds irrational and sheeplike to a degree but if you're taught that a trend exists and then you see it for yourself in its full glory the lesson stands. I really hope there is someone on here who can draw up a little top twenty list of tory government achievements just to dispell a few of these myths. If they're myths why don't you dispell them yourself? I just did the tories introduce the pension, unemployment benefit and carry out massive social housing and school building programs

But you cant for all time hold every conservative government responsible for what a previous government did? Where would you draw the line in history? Not just the Thatcher government though was it? Historically tory governments have always been about representing the affluent and priveleged, and the South of England. Have you seen the make up of the present tory party? Virtually all went to private schools, and most of them not even 'normal' private schools at that. Cameron and Osbourne, obviously the most significant tories, are both Etonians ffs. What on Earth makes you think this particular blue leopard will change its spots? Because they have a tree drawn by a 5 year old as their logo? While not a great political historian, I am quite confident your comments have little truth or sense behind them. Others will be more informed on the subject but didnt the tories introduce the pension, unemployment benefit and carry out massive social housing and school building programs in the pre second world ward days? Hardly representing the affluent!!! I am sure there are plenty of other great achievements by Tory governments. And as for having a go at potential leaders of the country for going to a very good school!!!!! Would you rather they went to Bensham comp? Were the tories ever responsible for the things you mention? I don't honestly know, hopefully someone else does, but its telling you have to go back over 70 years to name any examples of how they have benefitted 'the common man'. They were resolutely against the foundation of the NHS though, I know that much. More fundamentally they obviously do not have socialist values by definition. I'd rather have a leader based on merit, not privilege, wherever they're from. A person from Bensham has as much right to lead this country as one of those silver-spooned nobheads imo. Tell that to all the commen folk who now own their council house.

I have my "impression" of how the Tories have always been passed doen by my parents. I know that sounds irrational and sheeplike to a degree but if you're taught that a trend exists and then you see it for yourself in its full glory the lesson stands. I really hope there is someone on here who can draw up a little top twenty list of tory government achievements just to dispell a few of these myths. They also introduced the National Lottery.....24 Billion for good causes

Conservatives and Labour launch Iphone app / swingometer http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Pos...11-225794ae09c0

I have my "impression" of how the Tories have always been passed doen by my parents. I know that sounds irrational and sheeplike to a degree but if you're taught that a trend exists and then you see it for yourself in its full glory the lesson stands. I really hope there is someone on here who can draw up a little top twenty list of tory government achievements just to dispell a few of these myths.

But you cant for all time hold every conservative government responsible for what a previous government did? Where would you draw the line in history? Not just the Thatcher government though was it? Historically tory governments have always been about representing the affluent and priveleged, and the South of England. Have you seen the make up of the present tory party? Virtually all went to private schools, and most of them not even 'normal' private schools at that. Cameron and Osbourne, obviously the most significant tories, are both Etonians ffs. What on Earth makes you think this particular blue leopard will change its spots? Because they have a tree drawn by a 5 year old as their logo? While not a great political historian, I am quite confident your comments have little truth or sense behind them. Others will be more informed on the subject but didnt the tories introduce the pension, unemployment benefit and carry out massive social housing and school building programs in the pre second world ward days? Hardly representing the affluent!!! I am sure there are plenty of other great achievements by Tory governments. And as for having a go at potential leaders of the country for going to a very good school!!!!! Would you rather they went to Bensham comp?

I read that earleir and was quite surprised how "for" Ashley the comments were. Was going to post it myself...... I think they do reflect how the majority feel and that they just want to "move on". Even after all that has happened the current position is creating dare I say a "feel good factor". Naturally we chew these things over more regularly than a lot of fans and by the very nature of the internet set up have some very trenched in positions. I can hand on heart say 99% of fans that get in the cab just talk about the positive aspects of the Toon and not the Ashley / Llambias sagas.

I think it would have been very interesting if the crunch hadn't happened - the tories would have been able to promise quite large tax cuts and Labour would have been able to pursue a quite radical agenda to combat that. I think now both are a bit timid (understandably) knowing we're skint. I listened to a bit of the debate on five live with Victoria Derbyshire interviewing George Osbourne. The big talking point of the election is about who is going to reduce the debt quickest and the least painfully. Not really inspiring stuff for the man in the street who really just wants to know when he can borrow some more!!!

But you cant for all time hold every conservative government responsible for what a previous government did? Where would you draw the line in history?

There was a lot of excitement and hope in 1997 when Blair strolled in. Britain was cool and all that. Thats not here now, even after so many years of one party, im not sure that there is a great appetite for change, even in closet tories like me. I really do think apathy has really taken hold and something needs to occur to jolt it back to life. As always with old governments, this one has used up all the good people and seems to have no ideas.

Or perhaps some people have strong convictions and actually believe in something other than this being a popularity contest, or about personal gain. The sheep imo are those that are led by the popular media in this country. problem is I don't think there are many convictions left in politics. Snouts in the trough (3 at court yesterday) illegal wars ( thousands killed for oil) Tories any better? Convictions....... There are other parties. As much as i loathe and despise the BNP I'd rather people voted for them (or the Lib Dems, Green, UKIP etc.) than not voting because of apathy towards the Tories and Labour. A 30% turnout and hung parliament isn't really the kick in the arse the two parties that have shared power for over a century need. They need to get out and start trying to win some votes then. I've never had an candidate knock on my door (lucky escape for them Used to love a good old doorstep challenge with the mormons) I guess its because we live in a "foregone conclusion" area. That aside they should still try. I live in South Tyneside too and I'm constantly getting flyers from David Miliband, the BNP and the local independents. Not so much from the Conservatives. The lass that's running in South Shields as the Tory candidate was in all my classes as at school.... http://southshieldsconservatives.co.uk/karen_allen_55.html http://karen4southshields.co.uk/index.php?...3&Itemid=10 She's a friend on Facebook so I posted on her wall how shocked I was that someone with a similar North Eastern upbringing to mine could end up a Thatcherite disgrace (there's photos of her meeting the witch on FB). For some reason she removed the comment though. Definitley would though. Excellent Aye aye

Or perhaps some people have strong convictions and actually believe in something other than this being a popularity contest, or about personal gain. The sheep imo are those that are led by the popular media in this country. problem is I don't think there are many convictions left in politics. Snouts in the trough (3 at court yesterday) illegal wars ( thousands killed for oil) Tories any better? Convictions....... There are other parties. As much as i loathe and despise the BNP I'd rather people voted for them (or the Lib Dems, Green, UKIP etc.) than not voting because of apathy towards the Tories and Labour. A 30% turnout and hung parliament isn't really the kick in the arse the two parties that have shared power for over a century need. They need to get out and start trying to win some votes then. I've never had an candidate knock on my door (lucky escape for them Used to love a good old doorstep challenge with the mormons) I guess its because we live in a "foregone conclusion" area. That aside they should still try. You are a forgone conclusion Tree.

Booyaka!! The Green party are the least flexible and most dogmatic party of all. Take their stance on nuclear power. Idiots. I don't for one second think that the Green party would get in though, that's the point. A vote for either of the main two parties or not voting at all is the same thing. It shows support or indifference towards their almost identical approaches. An increased vote for extreme left and right wing parties will both pull the main parties out of the centre towards opposing extremes as well as increasing the flexibility of the extreme parties who will push to increase their vote by becoming more centerist. The greens time has come and gone. People are too busy struggling to make ends meet to worry about green issues. The BNP. Well that will always be a nothing party as well regardless of peoples genuine concerns over immigration and the effect on some communities. Whats needed is a new party to rise up and try and put honesty at the forefront of all they do. They should not get bogged down in "convictions" but more interested in the solutions to the days problems. Steer away from soundbites and get back in the communities at grass root level. there must be another way and I think we are crying out for it. Labour and Conservatives are now just the same old tricks with slightly different clothes.