Christmas Tree

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do. The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong. Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though. What limits were these then? Never heard of them before, I was under the impression intra-euro immigration was higher in many countires than it was here, happy to find out more about it if someone has a link (not to UKIP or similar though). Iirc, for a period (4 or 5 years?) existing EU could limit the number of people they'd admit from the new members (Poland, Romania, etc.) Right, sounds like we fucked up a bit then. Just a tad

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty? It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well. Apparently the EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries that are not part of the EU. UKIP says on this....... Have they asked the other Commonwealth countries about this? Why on Earth would we want to increase trade with a heterogenous mix of countries that are thousands of miles away based purely on historical reasons. And at the same time cut us off from our Geographical neighbours - the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market. Once again, why don't you think the tories embrace this if it were remotely feasible - don't you agree it's a vote winner? Trusting UKIP to make policies on Europe is a bit like asking a paedophile to reform child protection laws. Why not try thinking for yourself rather than simply repeating years of what you've heard? Can you explain this sentence? Neither of us are economists, so no, off the top of my head I couldn't list the differences, but they are different, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. I actually found this wiki article on the European Union, and its subarticles, very enlightening (increasingly I'm growing to respect wiki as a good source of reliable information, better than newspaper articles or political manifestos anyway). It seems to me that it would be hugely detrimental to effectively go it alone, an opinion which is almost universal amongst anlaysts and mainstream politicians - including those from your party. At the end of the day the political parties all agree on keeping the status quo (except the loonys). For largely idealogical reasons, I'd like us to ultimately be in the euro, and I suspect you'd like us out of the it altogether. Fair enough, neither of us will get what we want so we live with the compromise. To be honest im not euro sceptic and like you have really not given it much thought. However having given it some thought today, i seem to be struggling to find a list of benefits for staying v going, particularly given the Norway and Sweden stances. I guess im coming at it from why do we need ANOTHER parliament to make up police and pass laws. As it stands we have less than 10% representation within that parliament anyway. Why do we / you feel a bunch of germans / italians / french etc can make better laws for us than our own politicians. If you do then doesnt that point to a problem with our system. Sweden is a fully paid up memeber of the eurozone isn't it? Can I freely move sticks and live in Norway, benefit from their health and social care? I doubt that somehow, maybe somebody can enlighten me regarding this. I basically agree with what NJS has said about the EU. Yes you can sir, yes you can!

It was from the Telegraph but I knew if I put that in some of the socialists wouldnt have read it. Im not saying its particularly right or wrong, more so that as demonstrated in this thread, a lot of us just take it for granted because its always been that way. I always like the UKIP leader Nigel fer.... when he's on question time. He does quite often talk a lot of sense its just a shame as you say he's in a no win party.

10 Reasons to leave the EU

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do. The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong. Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though. They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been. By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done. Surely the "rush" was more to do with the perceived inclusiveness of the UK and that many immigrants speak (pigeon) English already. Crap photo of the old man by the way. Cant have TT not grinning....

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do. The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong. Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though. They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been. By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done. Surely the "rush" was more to do with the perceived inclusiveness of the UK and that many immigrants speak (pigeon) English already. Yes, but had we done as our fellow europeans had done....They wouldnt have got in.

I've always been for the concepts of the EU because I feel in the next few years we need to be in an entity that big to compete with China and India as well as the "old" powers. I think an individual country would be too overshadowed. I've also always thought the idea of a larger community with similar people (fuck off Parky) to be beneficial from a social point of view and I'f like to see the ties and exchanges between countries expanded. That fights been and gone....we lost

Nice to hear. Makes Brown seem even more of a prick for having a pop at her like. Aye, well done Mrs Duffy for keeping her integrity. I don't think Brown was being malicious but he must feel like a complete tit over this mess. Turned down the Sun but sold it instead to the Mail on Sunday by all accounts. All will be revealed on Sunday morning I guess. Is it true that a member of the labour party allegedly offered the dear a substantial amount of money to do the photo shoot with Brown that she refused.

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do. The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong. Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though. They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been. By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done.

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do. The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong. Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty? It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well. Apparently the EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries that are not part of the EU. UKIP says on this....... Have they asked the other Commonwealth countries about this? Why on Earth would we want to increase trade with a heterogenous mix of countries that are thousands of miles away based purely on historical reasons. And at the same time cut us off from our Geographical neighbours - the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market. Once again, why don't you think the tories embrace this if it were remotely feasible - don't you agree it's a vote winner? Trusting UKIP to make policies on Europe is a bit like asking a paedophile to reform child protection laws. Why not try thinking for yourself rather than simply repeating years of what you've heard? Can you explain this sentence? Neither of us are economists, so no, off the top of my head I couldn't list the differences, but they are different, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. I actually found this wiki article on the European Union, and its subarticles, very enlightening (increasingly I'm growing to respect wiki as a good source of reliable information, better than newspaper articles or political manifestos anyway). It seems to me that it would be hugely detrimental to effectively go it alone, an opinion which is almost universal amongst anlaysts and mainstream politicians - including those from your party. At the end of the day the political parties all agree on keeping the status quo (except the loonys). For largely idealogical reasons, I'd like us to ultimately be in the euro, and I suspect you'd like us out of the it altogether. Fair enough, neither of us will get what we want so we live with the compromise. To be honest im not euro sceptic and like you have really not given it much thought. However having given it some thought today, i seem to be struggling to find a list of benefits for staying v going, particularly given the Norway and Sweden stances. I guess im coming at it from why do we need ANOTHER parliament to make up police and pass laws. As it stands we have less than 10% representation within that parliament anyway. Why do we / you feel a bunch of germans / italians / french etc can make better laws for us than our own politicians. If you do then doesnt that point to a problem with our system.

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well. I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not? Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested. I'm sorry but you're wrong. Leaving the EU would restrict free movement, unless negotiated otherwise. Of course, such an arrangement would have to be reciprocal. Not sure how you arrive at that statement. Dont Norway and Sweden have total free movement of people and are part of the European free trade agreement.

If you think that the EU countries would let us leave without a fuss then you're wrong imo. I dont know the answer to that, however I would have thought that was up to us not them (at the moment).

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well. I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not? Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested.

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty? It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well. Apparently the EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries that are not part of the EU. UKIP says on this....... Have they asked the other Commonwealth countries about this? Why on Earth would we want to increase trade with a heterogenous mix of countries that are thousands of miles away based purely on historical reasons. And at the same time cut us off from our Geographical neighbours - the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market. Once again, why don't you think the tories embrace this if it were remotely feasible - don't you agree it's a vote winner? Trusting UKIP to make policies on Europe is a bit like asking a paedophile to reform child protection laws. Why not try thinking for yourself rather than simply repeating years of what you've heard? Can you explain this sentence?

From the Telegraph.....

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty? It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well. Apparently the EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries that are not part of the EU. UKIP says on this.......

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see. What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs. First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU. As for number 3 on the list..... Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner????? There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit. I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it. You seem to want the benefits of the single market without actually being in the single market? How does that work then? The Independent article was a list of extra benefits above and beyond being part of the single market (with some tongue in cheek examples - see point 50). You can't just opt in for the good bits and opt out the bits you don't like. As one of the richest countries in the EU, we are expected to be net contibutors, and the EU has also redirected money to the provinces of the UK, which is needed unfortunately. The money we pay to be in the EU after Thatcher's rebate (one good thing she did) is peanuts compared to being alone in Europe. As I said, even Mr Cameron recognises that - I'm sure there are enough euroskeptics like yourself to make withdrawal from the EU a vote winner if it were remotely feasible. Without being in the EU. There is a big difference which it seems you dont understand

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty? It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby

5th pint Kronnenburg wind up post

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see. What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs. First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU. As for number 3 on the list..... Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner????? There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit. I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it.

I don't really understand what benefit we get from being in the EU. Why can't we just sign up for the free trade bit? Seems a whole lot of money in for very little out.

Fish, sort your fucking Terry Thomas out! Its been a week since it went off. Come on sort it!

It will happen under Ash, very soon.