Christmas Tree

You just got done telling us it was a blip! http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=727701 Can you not stick to a position for longer than 5 minutes (besides "I love Mike" and "Chris is great")? Seems like you've got your constants but you'll argue black is white on anything else and come back the next week to do the reverse. Contrary doesn't begin to cover you. Hey Hey its stalker man! Your weekly hour on the prison PC I take it. Come on, have a go this week and tell us your opinion for a change.

They ARE the fuckin doom mongers !!! What else would you call people with LOW horizons? Realistic Lets hear what you THINK will happen next year?

you make me smile on a dreary day So do you, you lambast everyone who has an opinion on what they think may happen in the coming seasons and then you write as if you are privy to the inner workings of the Sports Direct Empire I dont lambast anyone for having an opinion, what I have a problem with is people ignoring the facts that have come out of the club and somehow magically believing that Ashley has suddenly seen the light and will spend what is needed to ensure we at least do what we would all expect and thats to get as high up the league as possible. The facts are that the club has set a low wage structure and constraints on purchases. Players under 26 costing less than a million was one quote while the wages has been clearly said a number of times to be under £15k p/w. More worrying though was the statement of "with a resale value", yes it makes sense to not spend £10m on a player who in two years wont recoup that but to turn us into a selling club is not football. Add in the mix that we have shite players here currently who are on double that and you've got a problem. Which self respecting 25 year old who wants to win things is going to come to a club who clearly show no ambition, a club whos stated aim is to survive? Which Premiership quality players are going to move to a club and play regular first team football while Alan Smith warms the bench on 30k? For that matter, do you think that the likes of Routledge, Guthrie, Lovenkrands etc are happy to put in their shifts while that goes on? Do you think we have any chance of holding onto those players when they can move to the likes of Stoke, Birmingham, Makems etc and earn more than they do here, stand a chance of playing in Europe and play alongside some better quality experienced players, players who can help their career flourish? I dont think so. You seem to think that there are only two options here, spend bugger all and do nothing or spend a fortune on "trophy players". None of us (or at least not me) think that we are in any position to go out and buy Ronaldo, Rooney or anyone else costing anything like £15m nor am I saying we do that. What you need to do though is get a sensible balance of experience, quality and youth to allow you to do more than survive. Doing that requires spending 4,5,6m on a player and paying them what they would get down the road. As HF is saying, aim for 17th and the slightest problem you're goosed. Aim for 10th and you've got 7 places you can fall and still be safe. All we ever talk about with NUFC these days is profit margins and balance sheets, all thats ever discussed with those is cutting back on player wages and purchase costs. There are two ways to make a healthier balance sheet. One is to raise the income the other is to reduce the costs. Both work but one is more successful than the other. Which do you think we're going for here? What happened to the days of increasing the revenue? raising the bar by promoting better football and potential success then using that to attract further investment? Nothing ever appears to be done at this club for that, getting a better balance sheet is all one sided and thats the Sports Direct way. Employ staff on minimum wage, pile it high, sell it cheap. So the products crap? so what? these people will buy it because its cheaper than the shop down the road. It works for a shop selling cheap tat, we're not that, we're a football club and a football clubs only priority should be to be as successful as they can. Cups, Europe, the League, it all generates income, it all gets people buying the shirts and attending the games. It gets you sponsorship deals of £15m not 6, it fills your corporate areas where companies pay tens of thousands to have a box. Do you think these companies with offices in the North East have any affinity with the club? No. They purchase a box because its a good way to entertain potentail clients, they get a good day out, good atmosphere and some exciting football, give the client a day to remember and you've got a chance of that multi million pound contract. If they cant get that here then they'll buy a box 8 miles down the road where they'll see a club who are pushing towards the top ten and looking like they'll try for something. That is why our football club is flawed. "We are going up" range, Now out! http://www.medocmall.co.uk/cgi-bin/live/ec...;sub_dept_id=10

The own goal should have been a nice easy take for Harper. He will definitely be a liability next year.

The bottom line is there is far too much hysteria.... On the one side, you have a group of fans who see last year as a blip rather than the inevitability that had been coming for many seasons. They EXPECT, although they may only hint at it, that we SHOULD be challenging for Europe next season. They do not want to hear how football has changed, even though all around, clubs are struggling or are up for sale. Even ones with recent "success" such as Liverpool. On the other side is a group of fans who have accepted we were heading for the drop and are just delighted to now be REBUILDING. They are not expecting a great deal from next season other than to strengthen the squad and try and stabalise ourselves around mid table. They then see the rebuilding continuing year on year so that this time we build on solid foundations. With regard to players age and wage structures. Can someone link to where anyone from the club has said this is the case and will not be veered from? It seems to be taken as fact yet I cant quite recall it being fact. The sooner everyone comes to terms with the fact that the spend spend days are gone the better. The only route back to the top is by graduaL improvement.

Blair is very money driven now - probably down to his harpie as much as him. Brown isn't exactly a council house lad but I don't think he's loaded - his dad was a church minister I think. Brown was educated in a state school. In general, it is fair to say that the tories are much more priveleged than politicians from the Labour party, and the two leading tories are amongst the most priveleged. How much this matters is a moot point of course. It matters not a jot really whether your rolling in it and well educated like Cameron or "working class" and not well educated like two jags. Only matters that you have the right ideas for that moment in time and can inspire and lead a great government. Depends on how much influence your background has on your ideas I'd say. In my opinion this lot will never help the average man on the street, let alone people from the North East. David and Boris. I didnt see it but a few of the local "working class" are raving about his recent performance launching their manifesto. Cant wait for the leaders debate, think its this week

I agree but if you play the empathy card as Cameron does, you should be open to question about where that empathy can come from. Specifics? At the end of the day the majority are still egotistical maniacs who crave attention, but all im really bothered about is whether they can do the job, not whether there nice guys. Bit like seeing a brain surgeon, as long as he's good.....

Blair is very money driven now - probably down to his harpie as much as him. Brown isn't exactly a council house lad but I don't think he's loaded - his dad was a church minister I think. Brown was educated in a state school. In general, it is fair to say that the tories are much more priveleged than politicians from the Labour party, and the two leading tories are amongst the most priveleged. How much this matters is a moot point of course. It matters not a jot really whether your rolling in it and well educated like Cameron or "working class" and not well educated like two jags. Only matters that you have the right ideas for that moment in time and can inspire and lead a great government.

Some cracking posts on this forum today

Course there was negativity. It probably got worse as the summer went on and was at its worst after the Orient game. You specified "at the start of the season" so I'll give you that....but people did expect to be champions. Stevie says in that thread he'd have been embarrassed to finish second this season. Most managers send messages to the players in interviews like. The minority did, the majority thought play offs at best, according to the poll.

Reach for the stars and you can make it to the moon. We aim above the mark to hit the mark. You can’t rest unless you set goals that make you stretch. Aim at heaven and you get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither. Not failure, but low aim, is crime. It’s a funny thing about life: if you refuse to accept anything but the very best, you will often get it. We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. etc. Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th. Its taken me 12 years to get to where i wanted to be in my life, i've worked hard to do it and am finally about where i thought my ambition could take me. Took me till i was 36 to acheieve what i wanted. If i had expected to be here before i was 30 i would have been wrong and disappointed. I expected to get there eventually but i expected it to come from hard work, experience and importantly patience. We werent unlucky last season and relegated by chance, we were shit, the club had fallen apart, it was broken. To put it back together again and return it to where it was in 2005/6, a full 4 seaons ago takes more than being promoted out of a shit league with players of dubious premier league quality. I know what the club are trying to do with all their current communication, they are trying to manage expectations. The crowd at SJP this season has been right behind the team. Why? Because expectation levels were low at the start of the season, so our performances generated happiness. But when we came 5th, the fans were a disappointed. Why? Because the exectations of the 3rd the season before and the 4th in 01/02 had created high expectations. The happiness of a crowd and the positivity in a club is intrinsically connected to its expectations. If you want to harness the power of the 12th man at SJP, you cant go into a season where realistically under the constraints of even a budget of 30m you can look to hopefully hit mid-table but have the fans expecting Europe. In fact the best way to harness the support and promote positivity throughout the club is to have expectations set around survival so that when mid-table results get produced, you capitalise on the extra positivity generated. In fact, you may even do better than you hoped at best. This, for me, is not about saying 'we are going to be a yo-yo club, get used to it', its about achieving what Trevor Francis said after the Forest match, getting the fans expectations right. You can argue the toss about whether they are right to do this but this is what they are doing and for the reasons i have outlined. Great Post

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th. I see your point Happy, honestly I do. But are you expecting Ashley to go ahead and spend 50 mill pounds next window? You write what you think we should do. You too, Christmas. I'm not saying aim for 17th, never did, but we have to be realistic. I'd like a knight on shining arabic horse horse to make us the next Man City ... but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Why can't we aim to do what Birmingham's done this season or Stoke (to some extent). We've built a solid, tight-knit base. If Ashley spends a realistic amount of 20-25 mil to bring in some extra players, that'll help. But going in, selling players and getting rid of CH (how many times have I read ... He's not a Prem. manager) and splashing the cash is most likely going to rock the unity that's developed over the last nine months. Also, if we do splash the cash, who do we end up spending it on? Why won't they be likely to be the next Owen , Viduka etc. Finally, heaven forbid we splash the cash but still get relegated ... what happens then? Ashley won't bail us out again, the team talk after Layton Orient won't build unity again ... and we'd be floundering in the CCC in heavy debt and royally fucked. Ashley is gojing to spend SOME money because he doesn't won't to see us dip in worth again by being relegated ... but this gung-ho talk of 'do it, and do it now' isn't going to work, nor is it going to happen. Be realistic, that's all I'm saying. As much as I care about NUFC ... we ARE just another promoted club. If we aren't ... tell me what we are. Anyway, Christmas Tree and Happy Face, I'm happy to have the discussion with you. Peasepud, I don't understand what you're on about ... George has it right: I already did I agreed with you and Oztoonfan. It wasnt a sarcastic post.

Excellent totally realistic posts from dbsweeny and oztoonfan. Argument well and truly won against the doomongers. Quite brilliant.

I understand your enthusiasm, but dont say this outside of here. NUFC celebrating a return to the premier league is embarrassing Tell that to Leeds, Boro, Notts Forest etc etc etc

Well done Chris

+ 1

Get in Nolan........ Hughton, tactical genius!

Stupid Fucker, who do you thinks driving the Limo

+ 1

Agreed, but your own personal Asparagus patch is like your own home moonshine kit.

Very Easy 4 - 0 tonight

We'd have gone down this season. +1

Yum Yum

Me neither, no doubt many of them of the "I wont go back while Ashley is there..." ....unless we're playing well/lifting trophies, mugs. Some of you lot are daft like, banging on about attendances in one post, beaming with pride that there will be a higher average gate than Liverpool, then slagging off the people who will create that attendance in the next. My thoughts exactly But alas I will not be their but it should be a great party atmosphere and rightly so.