Christmas Tree

think this will backfire for the Libs at the next election. Cleggs starting look as though he's power crazed. If I was Cameron I would come out tonight and pull out of talks, taking the high ground. Let libs and lab deliver the savage cuts and then clean up next time.

it was brilliant. I would have put money onthat he was about to spark out alistair Campbell. I love this country and you and mandelson, unelected, are trying to stitch it up!!!!! (words to that effect)

Surely it highlights the bad side of first past the post? There are many forms of PR, it works very well in the majority of advanced countries. The point is though that this situation is rare in first ptp. With PR it will happen every time and manifestos will be ripped up re-written post election in smoke filled rooms by minority parties.

I must admit I quite like Alan Johnson. He always has a smile on his chops.

Putting party allegiances to one side, this sordid week highlights the bad side of PR. Here we have a minority party of 50 odd seats that has just forced the leader of the labour party to resign. Secondly, a lib lab pact can not reach a majority and needs to also sell out to the likes of the SNP ffs! What happens next time when the labour party needs the BNP to stay in government? What will they sell out then? I feel sorry for Brown being forced out by another parties leader. Simply shabby politics. Also, if millibands the favourite to replace him...... Fucking hell.

Can I just say as well that this Tory voter (all for me) and labour (all for everyone else) politics is bollox IMO. I don't vote Tory because of what they'll do for me. I tend to vote Tory for lots of other reasons. Labour give out free tax credits to families who don't need them and lots of other goodies I don't need so really I should vote for them. But because I do know about politics I appreciate that at times labour are better and vice versa. But this holier than thou labourite feed the needy shit is bollox. If people were really just voting on that basis then the Liberals should be romping, not dwindling.

Craig, always keep in mind that Internet forums are entertainment, a bit of fun. How you can't believe we are stll discussing one of the most major political situations in most of our life times is strange. Once this has blown over we should have a fixed politics thread for a good bit of banter. As for the insults I never insult anyone until provoked, but even then it's only in the context of a Internet forum banter in the knowledge that all of us can put up with a bit of abuse from people we know nothing about. Regarding the thread, I just get worked up that people attack Cameron because of Thatcher, eton etc. Not his abilities to be a good prime minister.

see pages 1,2 and 3

And that wouldn't be the case under PR. The Conservatives should welcome it with open arms. But there must be a big down side for them or they wouldnt be so against it?

We are probably only weeks away from the emergency budget and the pain that will bring. Anyone got any good guesses as to what to expect. VAT to 20% ? Income Tax up ? Petrol Tax up ? Should / Could we get out of the olympics ?

The 5% threshold in the German system isn't bad. As for the same people permanently holding power, if people are aware in advance that a Lib-Lab pact is the likely outcome of any election under PR where those two parties get 50%+ of the MPs, they can vote against that possibility. (This is one reason I don't think it's a given that PR will actually be a good thing for the Lib Dems!) And more to the point, their vote will actually count, in a way that a vote for a non-Labour party in the barren wastelands of the north-east usually doesn't. But thats the problem. Currently its about 20,000 to 30,000 people in who swing in the 100 marginal seats that decide the fate of the nation. The rest on both sides just vote the same way regardless. Like it or not the country sometimes needs labour and sometimes needs Conservative. Having just the centre left continuously we might as well just become a commune.

And yet another vote for the Tories in the Toontastic poll........The message is getting through.

See you've lapped up another sound bite already. The majority of people vote as they always do. A minority of people in 100 seats swung back to conservative. I love the way Im condescending, but yet you label the millions who voted conservative as uncaring and uncompassionate. I'd love to hear why you think the government we end up with under PR will be great. It will probably just leave the same people in power continuously or Labour having to do deals with the BNP to get policy through.

Totally agree with the first paragraph. Thats been bugging me each time Ive heard it said this week. As for the PR debate thats a tricky one. All the indications tonight are that the deal is nearly done so a compromise of some sort must have been done. Still uncertain if there is a real public clamour for PR. Do we really want to go through this every time we vote? Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP! Also does anyone know exactly how the Australian system works and Fry seemed to think it was pretty good, but i've not read up on how they do things. Yes but Fry like others wants a Tory free world, because of Thatcher!!! First of all she's been gone 20 years, move on and second I dont want a system that only ever delivers a labour or lib dem pact. Lawmakers have to take into effect the blind voting ways of most of the North East, Scotland and wales. Its not blind to never vote for a party that has and will always shaft the people who live there, and i could name many places that blindy vote tory and always will, want to take into effect those as well? And Fry doesn't want a tory free world because of thatcher (though that is reason enough) he made his reasons clear in the article, because like most intelligent and decent people he can see liars who haven't changed and never will and he doesn't like what they stand for. First of all there are blind voters on both sides and we all know that it is only in the constituencies of about 100 seats where voters do change sides that elections are won and lost. Banging on about Thatcher now is like harping back to Heath. What lies has Cameron told?

Yes and no excuses. But putting that to one side, anyone who has any dealings with business, HR or PR can surely not even begin to come to terms with the set out and words in that statement. It reads as though cobbled together by some working mens club committee. I have read it a few times to see if I could gllen any positives from it..... Are they trying to be totally truithful and upfront about the situation given the various stories about how much, which players etc etc. If so they have been very naive. Not much leaves me speechless but this time they have succeeded. Leazes, Pud...............

Totally agree with the first paragraph. Thats been bugging me each time Ive heard it said this week. As for the PR debate thats a tricky one. All the indications tonight are that the deal is nearly done so a compromise of some sort must have been done. Still uncertain if there is a real public clamour for PR. Do we really want to go through this every time we vote? Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP! Also does anyone know exactly how the Australian system works and Fry seemed to think it was pretty good, but i've not read up on how they do things. Yes but Fry like others wants a Tory free world, because of Thatcher!!! First of all she's been gone 20 years, move on and second I dont want a system that only ever delivers a labour or lib dem pact. Lawmakers have to take into effect the blind voting ways of most of the North East, Scotland and wales.

Totally agree with the first paragraph. Thats been bugging me each time Ive heard it said this week. As for the PR debate thats a tricky one. All the indications tonight are that the deal is nearly done so a compromise of some sort must have been done. Still uncertain if there is a real public clamour for PR. Do we really want to go through this every time we vote?

Nah, its a shit statement but at least we now have a five year plan to be mortgage free CT this is your last stand really. Good luck. :)

Nah, its a shit statement but at least we now have a five year plan to be mortgage free

Asda Boldon have a 2 for 1 offer on Humble Pie at the minute. Eat one now, freeze the other for Ordinary Dave's implosion? Best get the family size ones CT. Fail me and words

As an ex marketing and PR man i am just gob smacked. I can see shreds in here that decent statements could have been built around, but this just looks as though some YTS has released the ddraft discussion document to the press. I really am lost for words and think the press will have a field day with this.

This must go down as one of the most bizarre press releases of all time. My brain hurts.

Its just so fucking funny how some things just get so much better with Age. :) And to all you Liberals out there .........Thanks Who'd have thought it

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