PaddockLad

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums. Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately. the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel. Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde? i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it. Look at the maps mate. You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years? EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance. legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on. the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks. from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate. personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements. but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done. That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews. "Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants." of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state. The Jews in any significant numbers themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth. The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq. The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up. Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan. Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons. They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines. Palestine is actually a Roman corruption of the word Phillistine iirc. Gloom, If you come into this thread and start shooting your mouth off it might be wise to have some scant understanding of the topic first. who lived in Judea then?

All the rocket tech and nukes they got from Germans. The first road cars were also invented by Germans, Benz if I iirc..I thought Konrad Zuse (yes Renton not an american name ) the GERMAN invented the first computer in 1936... Soooo, I'll give you consumer goods. Is there really any point of the likes of you and tooner posting in this thread, it is beyond doubt you are both ridiculously knowledgeless... Peace. .....because I don't have the seething hatred of americans that you do, I am clueless?......ok, whatever. "Seething hatred".. In the defence of America I will say that the PEOPLE often in times of trouble and need show a very big heart and genorosity." [Parky/] I merely present facts dear. Deal wiv it. Whatever. Let's put the wars aside a minute the criminal, fraudulent and destructive american banking system is single handedly fucking up the financial viability of 3/4 of the planet. It is the worlds biggest polluter bar none, it is the first worlds most undereducated country by a mile....IT IS A FUCKING BASKET CASE. I can only think some people in this thread are watching Top Gun round the clock. .....well maybe not seething but but you've got some issues with america. as I stated before i don't condone or side with american foreign policy or military actions, my point was only that the outcome of the second world war was due to the co-operation of ALL the allied countries and any attempt at detracting from or qualifying the contribution from any allied country does a dis-service and dishonor to the 100,000's of people from those countries who gave there lives. .....so whatEVAR. I can't remember are you Canadian? you cheeky fucking prick...... I am.......and I will apologize for any undue amount of flag waving i've done recently, been caught up in the hoo-haw of canadian pride left-over from the olympics. Sidney Crosby broke my heart on 28 Feb 10. Helluva game though. Probably the best hockey game I've ever seen in my life (barring of course, the Miracle). Congrats on the gold- you deserved it (well, maybe not Broduer... ! That was a good game of ice hockey?....first time I've tried to watch it on tv and I thought it was barely watchable...for me its basically too fast for a decent televised sport. Is this a common thing the uninitiated say or is it just a fuckin crap spectator sport anyway? ps I like Americans in general, when you go there they are much nicer and better people than the impression you get through the media/tv or those loud fuckers on bus tours with tartan trousers and 15 cameras round their necks

the only thing that lived up to expectations was the off field crap. his performances and injuries make him one of he worse signings of recent years when you look at how much he cost and his wages. can't understand why so many still seem to think he'll come good. awful signing He should've been lynched after Anfield last season but hanging is too good for the cunt. I'm not usually too critical of some of the piss poor bunch we've had over the years but this fucker takes the biscuit. And to think some people think Bellamy is a horrible git....Barton makes him look like Kofi Annan If we could get rid we should. The players will need to stick together next season and he's not an ideal cnadidate to create harmony. He may stub a cigar out in someones eye. This prick will never change and I dont want to read another self pitying pile of bollocks saying that he will.

I was dragged to see Soloman Kane last week......I dont think it'll be troubling the academy voters but the outside scenes were quite nicely shot (supposed to be the south west in the 17th century) and the special effects were very good. The script sadly would embarrass a 12 year old though. But not the worst 90 mins of my life...that was Wigan, boxing day 2008 Oh and Gareth from "The Office" turns up as a mad priest who tries to feed Soloman to some zombies he keeps under his ruined chapel

I really don't fancy our chances very much at Reading...they're on a great run, the form team of the division. And they're beating Villa 2-0 at HT in the cup D'Oh! Collectively Toontastic predictions are shit! aye...none of us are exactly mystic meg are we?...apart from accadacca Still dont fancy our chances of more than a point down there though. 5 home games left.....can we be confident of 15 points from them?.....that would give us 87 points...another 3 from 7 away games for promotion?....actually that sounds pretty easy

I really don't fancy our chances very much at Reading...they're on a great run, the form team of the division. And they're beating Villa 2-0 at HT in the cup

to what support do you refer? They praised Hitler's election and also had an infamous "Hooray for the blackshirts" headline in support of Moseley. Ive never seen or heard of that. do you have a link? Lord Rothermere owned the Daily Mail back then, and he along with the abdicated George V/ Duke of Windsor and that fuckin bandwagon jumping twat Oswald Mosely would've let the goosestepping cunts in before you could say "bratwurst und chips danke" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail and the "educated and intelligent" Micheal Foot supported CND, and the growth of Socialist Soviet Russia ? Can't really argue with that but Communism or Facism would've/will have never took off in this country because we tend to laugh at extreamists of whatever political persuasion. The vast majority of us think they're all idiots. But it has to be said that in the 30s facist ideas were in the minds of some very powerful people. There was the Soviet spies at Oxbrigde of course,Philby,MaClean.Blunt etc, but were they really in a posistion to do anything apart form pass secrets on and plot?....The Duke of Windsor visited Hitler straight after the abdication. We've a lot to be thankful to Mrs Simpson for.

to what support do you refer? They praised Hitler's election and also had an infamous "Hooray for the blackshirts" headline in support of Moseley. Ive never seen or heard of that. do you have a link? Lord Rothermere owned the Daily Mail back then, and he along with the abdicated George V/ Duke of Windsor and that fuckin bandwagon jumping twat Oswald Mosely would've let the goosestepping cunts in before you could say "bratwurst und chips danke" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

I didn't need to google that article to know Richard Littlejohn had written it....I've always thought "opinion writers" of whatever politcal hue are the most utterly fuckin useless receivers of a 6 figure salary that have ever drawn breath, and this article pretty much sums that up. A lot of it may be accurate, but RL's opinions, like Foot's during his time at the Evening Standard, are bought and paid for by the paper's proprietor. He has an agenda to push, and this annhilation of a man still warm on a slab is as classless as it is fuckin predictable. The dead cant sue, and the likes of this prick play on that fact.

This is the straw that broke the camels back for me......as of 4th April we will live in a Murdoch free household. I got home from work and told them to come and take their dish away....apparently I've got to do it myself but at least I won't be giving them any more of my hard earned from that date. We could very well be promoted on the (former) weekend of the Plymouth game. The longest trip possible in English football. Why not televise the Ipswich match the following weekend where we wil (more than likely)l have a full house and quite possibly a great atmosphere for the nation to see....do sky want us going up in front of the fewest of our own fans as possible in a town so far away its virtually got a fuckin French post code?

As appeasers and loony lefties go, I suppose he was Appeaser? I think not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Foot He was also a founder member of CND, if thats what Toonpack is on about. He wanted a world without nuclear weapons, a bit naiive perhaps, but he had principles and was prepared to stick to them for better or worse. Can anybody tell me what David Cameron's principles are?.... Mid 30's outspoken against re-armament, war breaks out, oooh that Hitler was a cunt all along and me gaffer's just become head of aircraft production !! The consumate politician, and that's not a good thing And as for CND, thought they were stupid cunts at the time, nothing since has changed my mind. Once the genie's out the bottle you can't get it back in. At the time the USSR would have walked all over western europe given a sniff of a chance, nuclear weapons stopped that. That said Foot's politics probably would have got him the governer-ship of the USSRUK Thats said about him, but as far as I'm aware what you could say about all socialists in the thirties is that their general policy was for all of Europe to disarm, which is a bit different to appeasement. Can't really find much evidence that pinpoints him specifically as a Nazi appeaser, as opposed to Lord Rothermere over at the Daily Mail, the treacherous fucker, who genuinely did support apeasement as it would make things easier for his friend Hitler, to whom he was writing letters in 1939 congratulating him on his annexeation of Sudenteland. Foot may well have been misguided, yes, but never a traitor...and all journalists are bought and paid for, it goes with the territory...if Cameron does get in in a few weeks time you'll see this in full effect when one of Murdoch's finest becomes media advisor to H.M's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland....fuck me that thoughts really depressed me...

As appeasers and loony lefties go, I suppose he was Appeaser? I think not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Foot He was also a founder member of CND, if thats what Toonpack is on about. He wanted a world without nuclear weapons, a bit naiive perhaps, but he had principles and was prepared to stick to them for better or worse. Can anybody tell me what David Cameron's principles are?....

What a great game that was, that was the first game I was allowed to go to the game on my own with my mates and no cunts dad there. Sunny day, Leeds fans giving it the biggun, fantastic. McGhee never scored that game, Kevin Gallagher got one down the Leazes, tricked everyone in to thinking he was going far corner and put it in near side. Am sure McGhee never scored for about 20 games, then he seemed to score every week. That Bradford game when he got the injury time winner, Quinn missed a pen in the first half, it was higher over the bar than Waddle's against the k.. erm against Germany. Was a horrible game, and me mate left to get a pizza in the last min and missed it John Ye knew what a meant, fuckin John, you knew for a fact I meant fuckin John. I can see his face now legs skinnier than my arms, he also scored a very nervous open goal against Leicester in the game you mentioned to make it 3-4. I don't like Kevin Gallacher (it isn't Gallagher anyway), never has anything nice to say about the toon, and in my book if you've played for Newcastle even for a few seasons, and don't walk away fan for life, am sorry like but you're a cunt. I'd imagine there might be a few players from the late 80s/early 90s that might not have many fond memories....Mark Stimson springs to mind. Fuck me he (rightly) got some stick. Depends on the player I suppose.

That's what I was going to say. And me....so I'll say 4-0 v Luton in 88...Michael O'Neil hatrick, Kenny Wharton sitting on the ball and Steve Foster, the heed banded old tosser, trying to throttle him at the end of the game...class edit:...the funniest thing about the Leicester game is two thirds of the home support walking out at 2-4 with 20 mins left

apparently...and I've not checked this or know if its true....we had 28 points at this stage last season and the tramps only have 27 as we speak....makes you think doesnt it?

"planning".......... according to wankers like Renton and Baggio a few years ago, this was the key to a golden future the likes of which Fat Fred and the Halls had never delivered You could not make it up if you tried. Talking bollocks and comparing me to Baggio now, nice one . All I said was it would have made sense to plan for Robson's replacement, rather than sack him 5 games into a season with the transfer window shut and no replacement, hence ending up with Souness. See, this is an area I have mentioned before, at the time, and was roundly condemned by clever dicks like you, but I was and still am correct, when you harped on about this "planning" business. The ONLY thing that matter is getting a manager who gets results ie knows what he is doing. Did you say the same thing when Gullit was replaced by Sir Bob a handful of games into the season ie "bad planning" You spout complete bollocks as usual Renton. i think renton's post is spot on tbh. don't sack a gem of a manager like robson when there isn't a better alternative. i think even as fat fred's biggest fan, you would admit that he got that one wrong. souness replacing sbr for me marked the beginning of our current plight. excacerbated by the fact that fat fred backed him to the hilt. hmmm.....well, I remember - at the time - the team being booed for finishing 5th in the league and a growing feeling that Sir Bob was starting to get things wrong and needed replaced. Still, I expect some people will try and deny this is true. His point is about timing and "planning", not the quality of the manager. MY point is about the quality of the manager, there is no "bad time" to get a quality manager. These are the memories I have of his last season. In particular he seemed to "forget" about being able to use substitutes and as such they were always in the last 10 minutes. Didnt only 5,000 or so stay for the lap of honour that year which really pissed SBR off. correct. Why do people disregard this. Were they not there or something, or just have a selective memory ? You're spot on about the fans...they influenced a weak and foolish man (in this case) who, seeing as he was drawing a 6 figure sum from the club every season in a salary may have been expected to see a bigger picture.... For me Shep thought he knew more about football than Sir Bob on this issue which is patent bollocks. Why not back the man who had delivered for him in the previous two seasons? Why not back the man and be stronger than the rabble? Theres a significant minority of Arsenal fans who want rid of Wenger...do you think the Arsenal board are going to be weak enough to sack him? Shep shot the goose who'd been laying golden eggs for him....and in doing so he laid the foundations for his own downfall at the club....but it has to be said Sir Bob was dreadfully let down by the fans as well. the continued insistence that such decisions were/are made completely by people with less than 30% of shares totally on their own, ruins observations like this. Fact is, at the time, the majority were starting to think Sir Bob needed replacing. If we think so, why not the people in the boardroom too ? The bit in bold is speculative nonsense, just the sort of usual "any stick will do" comment. Sir Bob was let down by the fans too. Those 5000 who booed the players, totally sickened me, it was absolutely shameful. OK..if you want to put it that way the fans influenced two weak and foolish men beause in Sir Bob's book he laid the blame fair and square at Dougie H and Shep....and for most of his time at the club he thought Shep acted unilaterally anyway: Shep: "I'll put it to the board Bob" SBR : "you ARE the board Fred" So thats Sir Bobs version.....he went on to say that he never had a sit down meeting at any point in his time as manager at the club with Dougie H ...why do you think that was?

"planning".......... according to wankers like Renton and Baggio a few years ago, this was the key to a golden future the likes of which Fat Fred and the Halls had never delivered You could not make it up if you tried. Talking bollocks and comparing me to Baggio now, nice one . All I said was it would have made sense to plan for Robson's replacement, rather than sack him 5 games into a season with the transfer window shut and no replacement, hence ending up with Souness. See, this is an area I have mentioned before, at the time, and was roundly condemned by clever dicks like you, but I was and still am correct, when you harped on about this "planning" business. The ONLY thing that matter is getting a manager who gets results ie knows what he is doing. Did you say the same thing when Gullit was replaced by Sir Bob a handful of games into the season ie "bad planning" You spout complete bollocks as usual Renton. i think renton's post is spot on tbh. don't sack a gem of a manager like robson when there isn't a better alternative. i think even as fat fred's biggest fan, you would admit that he got that one wrong. souness replacing sbr for me marked the beginning of our current plight. excacerbated by the fact that fat fred backed him to the hilt. hmmm.....well, I remember - at the time - the team being booed for finishing 5th in the league and a growing feeling that Sir Bob was starting to get things wrong and needed replaced. Still, I expect some people will try and deny this is true. His point is about timing and "planning", not the quality of the manager. MY point is about the quality of the manager, there is no "bad time" to get a quality manager. These are the memories I have of his last season. In particular he seemed to "forget" about being able to use substitutes and as such they were always in the last 10 minutes. Didnt only 5,000 or so stay for the lap of honour that year which really pissed SBR off. correct. Why do people disregard this. Were they not there or something, or just have a selective memory ? You're spot on about the fans...they influenced a weak and foolish man (in this case) who, seeing as he was drawing a 6 figure sum from the club every season in a salary may have been expected to see a bigger picture....For me Shep thought he knew more about football than Sir Bob on this issue which is patent bollocks. Why not back the man who had delivered for him in the previous two seasons? Why not back the man and be stronger than the rabble? Theres a significant minority of Arsenal fans who want rid of Wenger...do you think the Arsenal board are going to be weak enough to sack him? Shep shot the goose who'd been laying golden eggs for him....and in doing so he laid the foundations for his own downfall at the club....but it has to be said Sir Bob was dreadfully let down by the fans as well.

when we played there it was like a bomb going off when they scored.....and it went on for about a minute...for atmosphere its the best game I've been to...shame about having to dodge bottles of piss like Cech stretchered off....theyve just said it may be his cruciate...season over. EDIT:.....West Brom 2 Reading ! in the cup...come on you baggies

no mate, we aren't a mid table club. We are one of the biggest clubs in the country. Clubs that are above us that should not be, are there [now] either because they are better run or have a sugar daddy. I don't think you are on of the idealogical numpties I've just mentioned by the way. Now I've no real interest in doing the club down but we've been in the top division for 47 out of 65 years since the end of WWII and our average league posistion for those years is 11th. In the Premier League years it is 7th. http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/england.htm this doesnt take into account the top divison changing the amount of clubs in it fairly regularly since the early 80s This is what people get at when they say that we're not a "big club"...we dont really have the league posistions historically to back it up, but you're spot on with definition of the difference between size (which leads as you say to great potential) and success.I'm aware you can use statistics to prove anything, but to many peoples minds we are a mid table club and thats not taking into account the 18 seasons of second tier football since 1945. I'm not that bothered when tosspots in the pub say "urr your not a big club"...I just say "yeah we're a nothing club from a northern backwater watched by two men and a dog"..that shuts the fuckers up because they know its not true, but when it comes to league posistions over the years they may have a slight point....we can point to league finishes in the premier league that the likes of Spurs and Villa would kill for but I think I may have swapped them for some the post war silverware they have won...theres a domestic double and a European Cup in amongst that lot..the fuckin twats Debt free "relative" success is easy...all we have to do if find the new David Moyes.....but the scouse mackems only averaged 17k when they won the FA cup in 1984...we got 27k in the divison below that season..our crowds historically stand up against anyones,but acheivements are somewhat lacking

And to help him lose the 'fond of mobile phones up the jacksy' tag in the process? It seems too easy, but you wouldn't rule it out. Then again, they're both dense enough to have believed they were in love and all. theyve just said on the radio that theres no pre nup....shes entitled to half of what he earned in the past 5 years.....kerching! if she does nail him for every penny he's got it may put paid to your theory...but I like to think that its true...fits in with the times in which we live perfectly As if they fucking know... you could be right.......but I feel its unlikely.....remember...the internet knows everything http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&r...ial&spell=1

I worked in Pompey in a shipyard for 6 months up until xmas and its seriously 50/50.....he dumped them twice, the first time because of Mandaric wanting to bring in a director of football, the poisition he was appointed to when he first went to the club. Then he went to Saints, never a good move regardless of the outcome in some fans' eyes...Milking the betting market when he went back, then deserting them again when bad times looked likely....in return for an FA cup win? Why would Mort talk to him if he wasnt going to offer him the job?...I just think he didnt fancy the commute,and could probably work out for himself that ashley was a bit of a twat......but in saying that its a 6 hour round trip from Poole to north east London and back. I think he was offered the job and I also think we dodged a bullet....Spurs fans must be fuckin bricking it

And to help him lose the 'fond of mobile phones up the jacksy' tag in the process? It seems too easy, but you wouldn't rule it out. Then again, they're both dense enough to have believed they were in love and all. theyve just said on the radio that theres no pre nup....shes entitled to half of what he earned in the past 5 years.....kerching! if she does nail him for every penny he's got it may put paid to your theory...but I like to think that its true...fits in with the times in which we live perfectly

Bournemouth,West Ham,Pompey and Southampton.....he's managed them all, and they're all,or have been very recently, financially ruined....he's a fuckin jinx at best, and just happens, along with Sasha Gaydamak, to own significant amounts of land surrounding Fratton Park.....who'd have thought it?

last 10 years 3rd place points totals: 08/09 Sheff Utd 80 07/08 Hull 75 06/07 Derby 84 05/06 Watford 81 04/05 Ipswich 85 03/04 Sunderland 79 02/03 Sheff Utd 80 01/02 Wolves 86 00/01 Bolton 87 99/00 Ipswich 87

Again, if that was their intentions on his appointment then it does make sense in a lot of ways, but for me the jury is out on that..are you suggesting that Allardyce was cheaper and could be manipulated into putting up with less funds than Souness or Sir Bob were granted as part of some sort of cost cutting measure?