OTF

Fair play you've proved your point perfectly.

Yeah, if he turns into an empty channel he can easily get out of there again because he has the turning circle of a Scott Parker.

Wouldn't go that far Christmas tree. He's had a good start to the season, but still has a long long way to go to pay off the shit he's put the club through. He was very good against Everton, having someone like Tiote operating behind him gave him more freedom. Fed an inch perfect pass through to Nolan which should have resulted in a penalty when Nolan was brought down by Coleman from behind without touching the ball. Long may his good form continue. I think his personal frustrations about not having played enough of late contributed to some of the brash challenges he made on the field, with a full pre-season and a solid start to the season hopefully we don't see him doing anything too foolish on the pitch, as that would be the most likely reason for an end to his good run.

Corporate income would be way down for the majority of sides, the only ones that would have been in somewhat of a bubble are those with extremely large profiles in places where the financial crisis had much less of an impact - like Manchester United in Asia. That's not simply a Mike Ashley issue, though he hasn't helped it at all. That's not to say that the other fat Bastard Shepherd couldn't have floated his own money to prevent interest from being due, or even just paid the interest out of his own pocket which is effectively what Ashley is doing if he's provided an interest free loan. The wage bill was previously at 75% of annual turn over, which is just flat out shocking.

I'd hav the four you mentioned plus Baines as cover for Enrique, Pienaar as cover for Ben Arfa, Coleman because he's better than Perch, Saha is still good on the odd occasion that he's fit, Yakubu has the scoring touch. I'd also have that big midfield lad they have coming through whose name escapes me, plus that ugly prick Fellaini who is playing shit at the moment but was mint for a patch last season. They're playing shit at the moment, but they're not actually shit IMO. I'd swap squads if I wasn't so attached to Jose Enrique, and didn't think that Ben Arfa and Tiote look quality.

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers. Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

fair play to plenty of our players being in the mix, though you have to wonder whether he watched the match? If he did surely Tiote would have been worth a mention. Williamson and Coloccini were good in some ways bad in other (particularly Williamson).

That sneaky bastard Perch has timed it perfectly so his suspension coincides with our Carling Cup match at Stamford Bridge - a game he was probably not going to play in anyway.

Rubbish article, picking up on the convenient timings. I don't think anyone here would want Given back, not because everyone is bitter, but more so because Krul is a long term prospect that we want to do right by, and Given would be a stop gap at best. Harper is on the decline it seems, so if we look at the positive side of this it will be good to see Krul get a consistent run in the side - something many of us have been calling for for some time. Lets not forget this kid has kept in Europe for us - had that blinder against Palermo in 2006 in which we managed to win 1-0 away thanks to of all things an Albert Luque goal from an inch perfect left footed Milner cross. About time that he was given a solid run in the side considering that he has never disappointed when called upon in a pinch.

Happy face that corresponds with the period where TV money skyrocketed, so without doing anything our incoming would have increased vastly.

@ the goal Sunderland have just conceded. Thirty yards out Ferdinand goes to clear it, belts into Fabregas' foot (I think) and loops over their keeper.

Perch wasn't good by the way. There's a reason why he gets a yellow every week, he is positionally not very good so has to rush in late and make brash challenges. Always looks rushed on the ball. Don't fancy Ryan Taylor's defending, but I guess he'll have to do while Perch serves his suspension.

Those commentators got it wrong soooo many times, pretty much exclusively in Everton's favour. Carrying on about how great a tackle it was, then realising in the replay how bad it was and that there was no contact with the ball they fell back to a much much weaker penalty claim at the other end 10 minutes earlier. They did rightfully have plenty of good things to say about Tiote, Ben Arfa, Enrique and Barton. Barton I think had possibly his best game for us, the same obviously goes for the two full debutants.

Nervous times there at the end!!! All up though it was a deserved win, we had the upper hand for the majority of the match. Nailed on penalty missed for us as well, though they had half a shout on one as well earlier in the piece. Tiote looks like he will be a mainstay in the side, and Ben Arfa so far is just clearly a level above other attacking players we have, and on the day above all attacking players on the field. Has a range of cleverly disguised passes in his arsenal our players are going to have to get used to having those sort of incisive passes on offer.

Didn't enjoy being felt up by Mike Williamson

Pointing must be an indication it's a shoulder injury. Probably code with the physio's for doing a Stevie Taylor.

Spare the first 10 or 15 his midfield has been dominated and he's failed to do anything about it. It was the same with Hughton last week, and for us even though we largely dominated the second half we couldn't get the goal and they grabbed a second on the counter putting it to bed. Here's hoping we can do the same.

What a difference from last week. Amazingly our midfield has it all over theirs which is where their strength normally is. Tiote so far looks excellent, and exactly what we need. Good movement, hard but fair challenges, good in the air despite not being particularly tall, smart passer, looks comfortable on the ball, can dribble and get forward. What a strike from Ben Arfa! Barton is having a reasonable game, and even Nolan in a deeper role is doing a prettyt good job of breaking up their play. Here's hoping it continues in the second half. Thus far we've clearly been the better team, they're surely somewhat shell-shocked at this point in time. Whatever the case they have plenty of dangerous players who could easily change the game if we drop our concentration and give away cheap balls like Williamson did with almost disasterous results. Anyway, smiling for now

That post, yes. But more so the first part of it in relation to the club being in three times the debt that we were when Mike Ashley took over. All good points you have raised above, however like I said I was mainly wanting a response to the first part of my post.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing the source stating that we're in 3 times as much debt as we were in June 2007. Are we now in £180m debt? So in June 2007 we were in only £60m debt? Is £100m of our debt interest free and owed to Ashley himself? I thought the general concensus was that the club was £100m in debt when Ashley bought it? Isn't the biggest issue that the majority of the club's debt was for the redevelopment of SJP and that it was financed on easy to manage terms for the previous board but once twat face Ashley bought the club it was repayable immediately? TBH, Ashley has no one else to blame than himself - the stupid cunt should have completed a thorough due diligence instead of bumbling his way into town as the new sheriff, here to save the day. Fuck I hate what he's done to the club I think prior to Ashley the club was tenuously balanced near enough the edge of a cliff face. Ashley, by virtue of incompetence not only pushed us over edge but did so with such gusto that we didn't come to a stop for some time. What would have happened if Ashley hadn't bought the club? Noone knows, but the mere fact that he was able to do so with such ease, particularly given his apparent lack of professionalism to me is a huge marker that the current owners wanted out. The redevelopment of SJP wasn't greater than £100m so it doesn't really matter given that £100m is the apparent figure than the club owes to Mike Ashley that is not being charged interest on. However good the finance for the redevelopment was, it wasn't 0%. Perhaps that is the mystery £30m that Ashley was not aware of when he purchased the club - the initial redevelopment costs were £42m in 2000 so it's feasible that there could still have been £30m owing some 7 years later. I still want to see peaspud's response to my post BTW.

Cahill's undeniably been a lynchpin for Everton's recent period of success. Anyone who says otherwise, knows nothing. If they say so as an Everton supporter who has watched plenty of their games then they're a moron. Has plenty of limitations but he's nothing like a Nolan in that respect. Moving on, this should be a win for Everton, but you never know your luck. There's word about that Cahill won't be playing, so they may start an unfit Yakubu. Coloccini is weak sauce and Williamson is no hulk, but speed is definitely their kryptonite and against a huffing and puffing Yakubu they should be alright if they don't give him a chance to get clear off the ball. Even though Beckford is quick, I'm not so worried about him because he's not a great finisher (watch me be punished for that comment). Basically I'm saying that at the moment they have a pretty toothless attack up front. Their midfield is where their class is, which is worrying considering the likes of Smith and Nolan are a decent chance of featuring for us. Please oh please let us play Tiote and Ben Arfa from the get go. It may not change the result but at least should make it a watchable game. Some random Everton fan had this to say about our last match: Spot on about Perch thus far. Seems out of his depth. How is it that this random Everton fan can make that obvious and factual statement about our midfield, and yet our manager persists with it? Interesting that he's thankful that Guthrie is out. Guthrie being a better player than many give him credit for. On point three, Ben Arfa was on the left for us most of the time.

Cahill's undeniably been a lynchpin for Everton's recent period of success. Anyone who says otherwise, knows nothing. If they say so as an Everton supporter who has watched plenty of their games then they're a moron. Has plenty of limitations but he's nothing like a Nolan in that respect. Moving on, this should be a win for Everton, but you never know your luck. There's word about that Cahill won't be playing, so they may start an unfit Yakubu. Coloccini is weak sauce and Williamson is no hulk, but speed is definitely their kryptonite and against a huffing and puffing Yakubu they should be alright if they don't give him a chance to get clear off the ball. Even though Beckford is quick, I'm not so worried about him because he's not a great finisher (watch me be punished for that comment). Basically I'm saying that at the moment they have a pretty toothless attack up front. Their midfield is where their class is, which is worrying considering the likes of Smith and Nolan are a decent chance of featuring for us. Please oh please let us play Tiote and Ben Arfa from the get go. It may not change the result but at least should make it a watchable game. Some random Everton fan had this to say about our last match: Spot on about Perch thus far. Seems out of his depth. How is it that this random Everton fan can make that obvious and factual statement about our midfield, and yet our manager persists with it? Interesting that he's thankful that Guthrie is out. Guthrie being a better player than many give him credit for. On point three, Ben Arfa was on the left for us most of the time.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing the source stating that we're in 3 times as much debt as we were in June 2007. Are we now in £180m debt? So in June 2007 we were in only £60m debt? Is £100m of our debt interest free and owed to Ashley himself? I thought the general concensus was that the club was £100m in debt when Ashley bought it? So instead of the debt tripling it has increased by 60%. Certainly not a good thing, but an increase of £80m is not as bad as an increase of £120m, and is quantifiable by virtue of the relegation. If you compare this season to 2007 & 2008 I would say that our wage bill would be a much lower percentage of our turn-over. Our turnover may be lower, but the decrease in corporate revenue may be slightly balanced by the increase in television revenue. I'm not defending anyone here just wanting to get a full picture. Given those actions that were taken, how do you think we can start to operate at a profit? The difference in winnings according to the position on the league table is very small. I guess the only way would be to improve the corporate revenue. Performances on the pitch may go a large way towards doing that, but given the changes in the financial climate it's to be expected that there would be a shortfall in that area by comparison to 2007-2008 and before. You have to have questions about other clubs in the league - are they operating at a profit? If so how?

Annoying how he has several 'articles' on .co.uk after the loss telling people not to be worried.

Yeah he was definitely having an off-game. Looked a bit complacent at times going forward. They did a good job of double teaming him quite often though, obviously being aware of how good a player he is. Bit of shell-shock maybe. Was annoyed at him for their second goal, he went to the effort of motoring back there to cover, then didn't do nearly enough to block the shot. Even still, having his worst game for quite some time he was far from our worst player, and still stood out head and shoulders above Perch.