OTF

I agree, threads like this are a load of shit and end up making everyone look like pedantic moaning bitches (even though they're the life-blood of forums). I just couldn't help myself.

You can only play the hand of cards you're dealt. No matter how much you whinge, bitch and moan about the dealer they're not going to change. Alternately you can talk endlessly about better hands you've had in the past and waste everybodies time.

You're right, but you fail to comprehend how much has changed in the league in that time. The spending from Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United has accelerated at a crazy level. Plus now you have Manchester City in the picture. It's MUCH harder to qualify for the Champions League nowadays than it was when we did it previously. We should be able to challenge for the Europa though. Challenging for the top half of the table is a reasonable expectation, and looks beyond us at the moment. Yeah, I too think that we should but only in a few years time after we stabilise in the League first. At the moment we don't have a squad that's seemingly capable of Europa qualification and we know that we're not going to see the type of gargantuan influx of funds that will see us immediately compete with the likes of Aston Villa, Tottenham and Everton. 2 years might seem like a long time now, but it will fly by. In the meantime I think we have to set reasonable expectations of what we're capable of all things considered.

If Butt is retained (even on vastly reduced wages) I will be very very angry.

I agree that I don't want an entirely new squad. 15m nowadays will buy you 2 maybe 3 good players unless you're picking through players who aren't wanted or are available for free. Bringing in some additional players will I think have a good overall effect on the existing players.

You're right, but you fail to comprehend how much has changed in the league in that time. The spending from Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United has accelerated at a crazy level. Plus now you have Manchester City in the picture. It's MUCH harder to qualify for the Champions League nowadays than it was when we did it previously.

Not at all but i do think we will spend about 15-20mil in the summer...we HAVE to and he knows that! Totally spot on. Ashley won't risk relegation again AND has the cash to do what needs to be done. I think he might well spend that much over the season...but he'll wait until January to see if he really needs to. I really hope not. I hate panic buying. Money spent in January to bring players into a club in a tumultuous situation means you pay too much for players who aren't wanted elsewhere. On top of that they come into a club where morale is low so already they get off on the wrong foot. You get much better value buying players in the off-season. They have a much better chance to settle in the club and get to know their team mates with the air of pre-season excitement and positivity. I'd much rather 15mill spend in the summer than 20 mill spent in January. Ideally though it would be 15mill in the summer then an additional 5-10 in January to cover any injuries or deficiencies that have become apparent across the season.

More or less. They're my facts, but I'd challenge anyone to disprove them. I was basically trying to remove feelings from the picture to give a run down of the last couple of years under Ashley.

FACT The club was in a bad position when Mike Ashley took over. FACT If Ashley wasn't so incompetent and reckless and actually looked over the books he would not have bought the club. FACT Ashley thought the club was a play-thing with which he could do what he pleased, and employ who he pleased. It was all one very expensive lark. FACT When things turned bad and he was called out on his unprofessional running of the club (in this case by Keegan) Ashley had no idea what to do, and with the fun gone he lost interest in the club. FACT With interest lost it was up to the team of people who Ashley had employed to continue running the club. They needed to do it without spending as when Ashley lost interest he didn't want to spend anything on the club. FACT Ashley thought he'd be able to sell the club off without making a loss. Unfortunately for him noone else is that financially reckless or weren't willing to play his inflated price which was set not by the actual value of the Club, but by the value that Ashley required to break even. FACT In the meantime the club was going to shit. All the while Ashley and the cronies he had elected felt that they would somehow avoid relegation and that because of that everything would be ok. FACT When the threat of relegation because incredibly real to even the most ignorant and thick of bastards Ashley panicked. It was too late to do anything in terms of playing personnel so instead he brought in Shearer. FACT When relegation occurred Mike Ashley realised the extent of his series of fuck-ups. FACT As a result of the vastly diminished value of his asset Ashley set about trying to address the inbalance in wages. He hoped that having done so his club would still be good enough to earn promotion. He put his eggs in the cheap basket of Chris Hughton, as he's a guy who noone could really hate, and would hopefully do a job for a moderate wage. FACT By luck or by sheer gulf in quality (or some combination) Newcastle performed quite well in the Championship. The results created a confidence that had been lacking from the club for some time. FACT Even with the team sitting pretty at the top of the table Ashley now appreciated that in football you can't take anything for granted and so invested a little more money into the side to help ensure that promotion was a more likely outcome. I honestly think that although he has fucked up monumentally on a number of occassions he will have learnt some very valuable lessons. The main problem as I see it is that I don't think he'll have any ambition greater than survival/mid-table comfort. He'll have no emotional attachment to the club particularly given the (somewhate understandable) malice of some of the supporters. From a supporters perspective though there is no alternative to Mike Ashley. He is the owner and will continue to be for some years to come so far as I can see. Personal hatred of the man aside desiring his financial downfall is akin to wanting the club to become more of a financial ruins. When it comes down to it I think you need to separate Ashley from the club. Newcastle United was here long before Ashley was here, and it will be there long after he leaves.

I think unfortunately that was given the first minutes of the game take the easy way out and not give it option by the ref. If we scored then it would have been a completely different game I believe.

Sincere or not... Harper - 5 Spilled the ball for their first goal. Otherwise wasn't really called on. Was confident and composed later in the match despite the error. Simpson - 5.5 Gave their striker too much space for the second goal. Showed good movement to get up and down the pitch but defensively wasn't convincing. Coloccini - 6.5 Largely composed and when tested seemed to do just enough to get by. Gave away a needless foul or two. Hall - 7 When he was on he actually looked quite solid. Made a good block. Didn't really do anything wrong - apart from get injured. Enrique - 9 Dominant defensive display. Literally is a class above. Can improve on his fnal options when getting forward. Routledge - 7.5 Started well then went a bit stale, turning the ball over or running himself out of options. In the second half he was back to his best, getting into some dangerous positions and providing the pass for Carroll's equalising goal. Guthrie - 7 A solid but unspectacular performance. Most impressive was his use of the ball, rarely if ever turning it over. Should have scored towards he end of the second half after an incisive run and 1-2 with Carroll. Went by the keeper but then put his shot into a defender. Nolan - 5.5 Didn't do a great deal. Sprayed a tough shot high and wide, and also put a very good headed chance straight at the keeper. Passing was adequate but he should have been more prevalent in attack given the amount of possession we had. Jonas - 8.5 A good performance. Was dangerous all game. In the first he put in an early cross that Carroll should have at least put on target. Snuck up on a defender to nick the ball off him from a Bristol goal kick. Then easily rounded the keeper and passed into the back of the net. No nonsense celebration just wanted to get on with the game and get the equalising goal. Smashed a shot from a corner on target that their keeper saved, and was dangerous in the closing moments. Best - 5.5 Looked predictable when be had the ball particularly early on when he had a good chance to send a shot goal bound but instead checked back and had his telecast shot easily blocked. Later in the match he made some good passes, but really would need to do A LOT more if he wants to dislodge LovenK or Carroll from a striking role. Carroll - 7.5 Finished like a true striker for his goal, but could have had a goal already at that stage. Played a perfect little ball into the path of Guthrie that should have been an assist. Overall his passing was very good. Linked up nicely with others. Kadar - 7 did nothing wrong and showed pace and an ability to read the game. Will be an asset next season.

Should have been 3 points really, on the balance of play - on everything. Their first goal was a Keeper error from Harper. Their second was a superb shot resulting from Simpson gving thier player too much space. Had plenty of chances to win the game in the second half, just couldn't get it done. Nonetheless coming back from 2-0 down at the half regardless of the opponent is a good result. Away from home even better. It's the kind of result that even though it wasn't a win will give the team some additional confidence going forward. I can't imagine how pathetic the second half would have been for us last season if we were 2 goals down, so there has definitely been a massive shift in attitude. Winning games does that. Enrique again a standout. Routledge had an interesting game, he started decently, but through the middle of the game dropped off and looked like he was going to fade to nothing. Then he got a second wind and kicked on to get in behind their defense on several occassions when switched to the left. Jonas was good all game, had a first half cross that Carroll should have done better with as well as some enterprising play of his own. In the second as well he was absolutely infuriating the Bristol players and their supporters which was good to see Guthrie unlucky not to score towards the end of the first half, made an excellent incisive run down the middle interchanging passes with Carroll knocked the ball past the keeper but then unfortunately put his shot into one of the rushing back defenders. Speaking of Carroll he really did have a very good game. What impressed be most was probably his passing whch has lacked previously. He seemed to have very good vision in this game linking up with his teammates on several occassions. His goal was very well taken also. Overall Best was pretty ineffectual, but did seem to grow in confidence late in the game and had a few good touches. Put some power on a headed chance and forced a very good save from their keeper. I agree that what he lacks is ability - for me he seems to obvious a player, and when the defense know what you're going to do it doesnt; matter how well you do it, normally they'll be able to put a stop to it. Fitz Hall will be missing for a while by the looks of it, but Kadar looked a very capable replacement. At one stage he belted a shot from distance at their keeper. If we had had players following in the shot one cuold have tucked it away after the kepper couldn't hold it initially.

Acrossthepond that was a overly dramatic and negative assessment of our current predicament. Though it was loosely based around fact there was some poetic licence taken there. Whilst we had many of the same players last season it was the instability and negativity at the club that was a huge contributor to the eventual relegation. This coupled with an ill-founded confidence from out owner that we were somehow immune from relegation meant that when they should have been strengthening the side they instead weakened it. Personally if we were to take on Another season with the same players we had in 2009-2010 then I have every confidence that they would not be relegated. Even with the typically large injury problems the players were too good by comparison to be relegated. Unfortunately it's not just about the players, but also about the mangement, the coaching staff, the owner, the supporters... They all play their part in the overall performance fthe side. If we were to have a manager who can get the most out of our side then I think at presen we could compete with some of the lower ranked premier league sides. If we were to bring in three or four good players in the window then we could then compete with the midtable sides. The 5 odd million spent in the last window won't be enough in the upcoming one, but for the upcoming window there's every chance that we'll be a premirleague side where-as in the last we were a championship side. Being in the top league not only makes us a far more attractive prospect for players but should also necessitate a greater overall spend. You're overly critical on the players brought in during the last window. All of them bar Best have proved useful and have added some depth or dimension to the side. Routledge adds muh needed pace and creativity down he right. Williamson looks a solid no nonsense defender. Fitz Hall has been invaluable cover for injuries. Van aanholt filled the gap during enrique's absence nicely. Simpson has been a solid contributor all season.

Absolute peach of a chip by Dempsey to get the tie winning goal. Amazing stuff.

I'm still disappointed that the club didn't use his off field behavioural issues (which brought the clubs reputation into question) as a means to either piss him off, or at thea very least vastly reduce his massive salary. If he was on half what he is on now he'd still be vastly overpaid but if the rumours are correct that would have been savings of 1.5 million pounds across a single season.

A good assessment of Carroll. He'll be difficult to defend for any defender regardless of level. I've said it in the past that he seems to be a better header of the ball when he's under pressure/has a defender right on top of him. When he has too much time to think/place the ball it doesn't work in his favour. Has a lot of improving to do no doubt, but as far as this season has gone it can't be considered anything but a success. Whether he can raise another level for the Premier League remains to be seen of course, but he at least now deserves a chance at it.

Living in the now.. If LovenK and Carroll can keep putting the goals away we'll romp the title.

Completely forgot about Jamie 'the Don' Carragher. What a fucking tool - talking about intentionally injuring his teammates in training. Not to mention retiring from international football when he wasn't even selected. I'm putting out a press release later this week about my impending retirement from the international scene.

Doing my best to not even consider Barton in my reckonings for the remainder of the season and beyond. That way anything we get out of him is a bonus. With his history relying on him for anything has proven foolhardy.

Agree with that, though for me Bullard would have to be injury free and shave off at least a couple of years (and the hair). There's a few people in Nigeria that will be able to help him with the years no doubt.

General consensus seems to be that Hughton is doing nothing special, and that just about any manager would have yielded the same or similar results with the gulf in the class of players in this league. With that in mind if we're promoted the fear is that once the results don't come so easy the players heads will drop and Hughton won't be able to motivate them, or make the necessary tactical adjustments required.

No way in the world that Mark Hughes would even consider it. After being cleared out an Man City going to Hull and being relegated would be disasterous for his career. Dowie is a more realistic shot.

Yeah, realistically it's a pretty good set of results. If West Brom keep winning it will mean that our players can't slacken off at all if they want to win the League. At the same time if Forest keep dropping away it's great news as in the end all that really matters is that we get promoted. Still a key match for us tomorrow.

Quite a few season back in a Newcastle vs Liverpool match Lee Bowyer made a pretty ordinary tackle, nothing malicious but a bad tackle nonetheless. I think the tackle was on Gerrard. Anyway Crouch came charging in from elsewhere on the field and shoved Lee Bowyer in the back, and carried on like a right tit. In the same instance as well Gerrard had his hands around Shearer's throat from behind. Neither Gerrard nor Crouch were penalised in any way for their actions. Of course Lee Bowyer was, because, well, he's Lee Bowyer.

In no particular order: Steven Gerrard, Francesco Totti, Frank Lampard, John Terry, Patrice Evra, Emmanuel Eboue, Cristiano Ronaldo, Alvaro Recoba, Fabio Grosso, Craig Fagan, Phil Brown, Alex Ferguson, Roy Keane, Emmanuel Adebayor, Martin Jol, Peter Crouch .... I'm sure I could go on.