OTF

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers. Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

fair play to plenty of our players being in the mix, though you have to wonder whether he watched the match? If he did surely Tiote would have been worth a mention. Williamson and Coloccini were good in some ways bad in other (particularly Williamson).

That sneaky bastard Perch has timed it perfectly so his suspension coincides with our Carling Cup match at Stamford Bridge - a game he was probably not going to play in anyway.

Rubbish article, picking up on the convenient timings. I don't think anyone here would want Given back, not because everyone is bitter, but more so because Krul is a long term prospect that we want to do right by, and Given would be a stop gap at best. Harper is on the decline it seems, so if we look at the positive side of this it will be good to see Krul get a consistent run in the side - something many of us have been calling for for some time. Lets not forget this kid has kept in Europe for us - had that blinder against Palermo in 2006 in which we managed to win 1-0 away thanks to of all things an Albert Luque goal from an inch perfect left footed Milner cross. About time that he was given a solid run in the side considering that he has never disappointed when called upon in a pinch.

Happy face that corresponds with the period where TV money skyrocketed, so without doing anything our incoming would have increased vastly.

@ the goal Sunderland have just conceded. Thirty yards out Ferdinand goes to clear it, belts into Fabregas' foot (I think) and loops over their keeper.

Perch wasn't good by the way. There's a reason why he gets a yellow every week, he is positionally not very good so has to rush in late and make brash challenges. Always looks rushed on the ball. Don't fancy Ryan Taylor's defending, but I guess he'll have to do while Perch serves his suspension.

Those commentators got it wrong soooo many times, pretty much exclusively in Everton's favour. Carrying on about how great a tackle it was, then realising in the replay how bad it was and that there was no contact with the ball they fell back to a much much weaker penalty claim at the other end 10 minutes earlier. They did rightfully have plenty of good things to say about Tiote, Ben Arfa, Enrique and Barton. Barton I think had possibly his best game for us, the same obviously goes for the two full debutants.

Nervous times there at the end!!! All up though it was a deserved win, we had the upper hand for the majority of the match. Nailed on penalty missed for us as well, though they had half a shout on one as well earlier in the piece. Tiote looks like he will be a mainstay in the side, and Ben Arfa so far is just clearly a level above other attacking players we have, and on the day above all attacking players on the field. Has a range of cleverly disguised passes in his arsenal our players are going to have to get used to having those sort of incisive passes on offer.

Didn't enjoy being felt up by Mike Williamson

Pointing must be an indication it's a shoulder injury. Probably code with the physio's for doing a Stevie Taylor.

Spare the first 10 or 15 his midfield has been dominated and he's failed to do anything about it. It was the same with Hughton last week, and for us even though we largely dominated the second half we couldn't get the goal and they grabbed a second on the counter putting it to bed. Here's hoping we can do the same.

What a difference from last week. Amazingly our midfield has it all over theirs which is where their strength normally is. Tiote so far looks excellent, and exactly what we need. Good movement, hard but fair challenges, good in the air despite not being particularly tall, smart passer, looks comfortable on the ball, can dribble and get forward. What a strike from Ben Arfa! Barton is having a reasonable game, and even Nolan in a deeper role is doing a prettyt good job of breaking up their play. Here's hoping it continues in the second half. Thus far we've clearly been the better team, they're surely somewhat shell-shocked at this point in time. Whatever the case they have plenty of dangerous players who could easily change the game if we drop our concentration and give away cheap balls like Williamson did with almost disasterous results. Anyway, smiling for now

That post, yes. But more so the first part of it in relation to the club being in three times the debt that we were when Mike Ashley took over. All good points you have raised above, however like I said I was mainly wanting a response to the first part of my post.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing the source stating that we're in 3 times as much debt as we were in June 2007. Are we now in £180m debt? So in June 2007 we were in only £60m debt? Is £100m of our debt interest free and owed to Ashley himself? I thought the general concensus was that the club was £100m in debt when Ashley bought it? Isn't the biggest issue that the majority of the club's debt was for the redevelopment of SJP and that it was financed on easy to manage terms for the previous board but once twat face Ashley bought the club it was repayable immediately? TBH, Ashley has no one else to blame than himself - the stupid cunt should have completed a thorough due diligence instead of bumbling his way into town as the new sheriff, here to save the day. Fuck I hate what he's done to the club I think prior to Ashley the club was tenuously balanced near enough the edge of a cliff face. Ashley, by virtue of incompetence not only pushed us over edge but did so with such gusto that we didn't come to a stop for some time. What would have happened if Ashley hadn't bought the club? Noone knows, but the mere fact that he was able to do so with such ease, particularly given his apparent lack of professionalism to me is a huge marker that the current owners wanted out. The redevelopment of SJP wasn't greater than £100m so it doesn't really matter given that £100m is the apparent figure than the club owes to Mike Ashley that is not being charged interest on. However good the finance for the redevelopment was, it wasn't 0%. Perhaps that is the mystery £30m that Ashley was not aware of when he purchased the club - the initial redevelopment costs were £42m in 2000 so it's feasible that there could still have been £30m owing some 7 years later. I still want to see peaspud's response to my post BTW.

Cahill's undeniably been a lynchpin for Everton's recent period of success. Anyone who says otherwise, knows nothing. If they say so as an Everton supporter who has watched plenty of their games then they're a moron. Has plenty of limitations but he's nothing like a Nolan in that respect. Moving on, this should be a win for Everton, but you never know your luck. There's word about that Cahill won't be playing, so they may start an unfit Yakubu. Coloccini is weak sauce and Williamson is no hulk, but speed is definitely their kryptonite and against a huffing and puffing Yakubu they should be alright if they don't give him a chance to get clear off the ball. Even though Beckford is quick, I'm not so worried about him because he's not a great finisher (watch me be punished for that comment). Basically I'm saying that at the moment they have a pretty toothless attack up front. Their midfield is where their class is, which is worrying considering the likes of Smith and Nolan are a decent chance of featuring for us. Please oh please let us play Tiote and Ben Arfa from the get go. It may not change the result but at least should make it a watchable game. Some random Everton fan had this to say about our last match: Spot on about Perch thus far. Seems out of his depth. How is it that this random Everton fan can make that obvious and factual statement about our midfield, and yet our manager persists with it? Interesting that he's thankful that Guthrie is out. Guthrie being a better player than many give him credit for. On point three, Ben Arfa was on the left for us most of the time.

Cahill's undeniably been a lynchpin for Everton's recent period of success. Anyone who says otherwise, knows nothing. If they say so as an Everton supporter who has watched plenty of their games then they're a moron. Has plenty of limitations but he's nothing like a Nolan in that respect. Moving on, this should be a win for Everton, but you never know your luck. There's word about that Cahill won't be playing, so they may start an unfit Yakubu. Coloccini is weak sauce and Williamson is no hulk, but speed is definitely their kryptonite and against a huffing and puffing Yakubu they should be alright if they don't give him a chance to get clear off the ball. Even though Beckford is quick, I'm not so worried about him because he's not a great finisher (watch me be punished for that comment). Basically I'm saying that at the moment they have a pretty toothless attack up front. Their midfield is where their class is, which is worrying considering the likes of Smith and Nolan are a decent chance of featuring for us. Please oh please let us play Tiote and Ben Arfa from the get go. It may not change the result but at least should make it a watchable game. Some random Everton fan had this to say about our last match: Spot on about Perch thus far. Seems out of his depth. How is it that this random Everton fan can make that obvious and factual statement about our midfield, and yet our manager persists with it? Interesting that he's thankful that Guthrie is out. Guthrie being a better player than many give him credit for. On point three, Ben Arfa was on the left for us most of the time.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing the source stating that we're in 3 times as much debt as we were in June 2007. Are we now in £180m debt? So in June 2007 we were in only £60m debt? Is £100m of our debt interest free and owed to Ashley himself? I thought the general concensus was that the club was £100m in debt when Ashley bought it? So instead of the debt tripling it has increased by 60%. Certainly not a good thing, but an increase of £80m is not as bad as an increase of £120m, and is quantifiable by virtue of the relegation. If you compare this season to 2007 & 2008 I would say that our wage bill would be a much lower percentage of our turn-over. Our turnover may be lower, but the decrease in corporate revenue may be slightly balanced by the increase in television revenue. I'm not defending anyone here just wanting to get a full picture. Given those actions that were taken, how do you think we can start to operate at a profit? The difference in winnings according to the position on the league table is very small. I guess the only way would be to improve the corporate revenue. Performances on the pitch may go a large way towards doing that, but given the changes in the financial climate it's to be expected that there would be a shortfall in that area by comparison to 2007-2008 and before. You have to have questions about other clubs in the league - are they operating at a profit? If so how?

Annoying how he has several 'articles' on .co.uk after the loss telling people not to be worried.

Yeah he was definitely having an off-game. Looked a bit complacent at times going forward. They did a good job of double teaming him quite often though, obviously being aware of how good a player he is. Bit of shell-shock maybe. Was annoyed at him for their second goal, he went to the effort of motoring back there to cover, then didn't do nearly enough to block the shot. Even still, having his worst game for quite some time he was far from our worst player, and still stood out head and shoulders above Perch.

Totti was an exceptional player, not so much now, but still a very good one.

He persisted with Nolan for a very long time last season, and he eventually started scoring goals again after a horrible patch through the middle of the season. You would hope that he doesn't keep the same line of thinking, given the vastly superior opposition we're now up against, but his track record is very worrying. If he is played in that position where he gets to do fuck all and just pop up occasionally at the end of a flick on or similar then he will score some goals and get an odd assist even at this level, but the negative impact he has on the team will far outweigh any positives. There will be times and places for him this season, but playing as some sort of lazy shadow striker isn't going to be one of them in my opinion. If we're going to play two up front them we need someone pacy alongside Carroll, someone who will make the run off the ball to give an extra dimension to our attack. Routledge is capable of sliding a through ball in front of someone like Lovenkrands as he showed on several occassions last season, I would think that Barton too would be capable of similar and so would Ben Arfa.

You're not wrong. Early in the piece it looked like Routledge was going to be a thorn in his side the entire game, predictably though Routledge disappeared from the game and our attack either went down our left, or tried to go through the middle. Some of that may be attributable to Perch who really just plain isn't very good. They don't play the ball out down the right hand side for that reason. Down our left with Enrique and Jonas we can comfortably play our ball out from our own ed (lets not talk about what happens once we're at the other end though). Even still Hughton should have been screaming at our players to play down our right.

Mine: Harper 6 Perch 4 Enrique 6 Williamson 7 Coloccini 6 Routledge 5 Smith 3 Barton 5 Jonas 6 Nolan 4 Carroll 6 Early in the piece Routledge looked like he'd be a key player for us, his pace could have caused their fullback all sorts of problems, but like he has a tendancy to do he disappeared and most of our attempted attack came down the middle. Nolan did one or two ok things in attack, but did plenty of horrible things. More importantly he did fuck all for us defensively. A luxury player when we really can't afford one. Needs to be someone quick making runs playing alongside Carroll, if we want to play through the middle. Perch is still not good enough, and makes horrible challenges. He's not really that quick - either that or he just couldn't be arsed getting back on several ocassions which is a worry. If you're not good enough, at least try hard ffs. Coloccini and Williamson if they're still together at the back against the likes of Arsenal are going to be in danger of being completely embarrassed. The way Fabregas can weight a through ball lofted or otherwise will split them constantly and expose their lack of mobility. Jonas needs player to come to him when he has the ball. We know he's a weak crosser of the ball, but if you come towards front post you'd be in with a shot. Could do with some better support inside.

I hope we don't get ahead of ourselves, and go out there and win the game before we worry about any sort of pretty play, or player debuts. Most important to us is getting 3 points.