Redshadow

No, unfortunately. I suppose a name change to something like the European League competition would be more appropriate, but it doesn't grab the sponsors as much as the name Champions League.

Yes it's crystal clear that the Liverpool supporters viewed the League Cup as every bit as prestigious as the Fairs Cup...... Liverpool 2 - 1 Athletic Bilbao Game Date :: 02.10.1968 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 1st round 2nd leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 49,567 Liverpool 8 - 0 TSV Munich Game Date :: 07.11.1967 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 2nd round 1st leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 44,812 Liverpool 0 - 1 Ferencvaros Game Date :: 09.01.1968 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 3rd round 2nd leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 46,892 Liverpool 3 - 2 Vitoria Setubal Game Date :: 26.11.1969 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 2nd round 2nd leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 47,633 Liverpool 4 - 0 Sheffield United Game Date :: 04.09.1968 Competition :: League Cup 2nd round Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 32,358 Liverpool 2 - 0 Swansea Game Date :: 25.09.1968 Competition :: League Cup 3rd round Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 31,051 You miss the point again. The League Cup has never been a big thing, playing in Europe has, but that doesn't mean the quality of the competition overall is anything to shout about because some of the teams that qualified were way down in their domestic league, with other clubs higher than them but being disqualified because of the one city rule. That is the only reason you were in it in the first place ffs. Yes no big teams ever played in the Fairs Cup none. I didn't say that at all. My overall disregard for it is because of the qualification, nothing else.

Being fair, to some extent I'd agree with you Alex, but the overiding thing for me would be that the teams who finished higher than you, and weren't allowed to enter, reduced the overall quality of the competition as compared with the UEFA cup. By definition that was the case I suppose. I'd say it was a better comp than the current Uefa Cup though and it was a freak occurence for us to come 10th* and get in. You'd have to say it was a bigger prize than the League Cup as well. *I remember a similar situation where we got into the Uefa Cup by getting to the Cup Final (think it was '99) but we actually got into the Uefa Cup when we'd reached the semis as it turned out, i.e. you often get into a competition by a quirky route, like Man City and the fair play thing. Better than the current UEFA yes, but me I'd rather have the old UEFA and Champions League comps. The UEFA had the best up and coming teams (and some on the way down) with the CL for Champions only.

Yes it's crystal clear that the Liverpool supporters viewed the League Cup as every bit as prestigious as the Fairs Cup...... Liverpool 2 - 1 Athletic Bilbao Game Date :: 02.10.1968 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 1st round 2nd leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 49,567 Liverpool 8 - 0 TSV Munich Game Date :: 07.11.1967 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 2nd round 1st leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 44,812 Liverpool 0 - 1 Ferencvaros Game Date :: 09.01.1968 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 3rd round 2nd leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 46,892 Liverpool 3 - 2 Vitoria Setubal Game Date :: 26.11.1969 Competition :: European Fairs Cup 2nd round 2nd leg Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 47,633 Liverpool 4 - 0 Sheffield United Game Date :: 04.09.1968 Competition :: League Cup 2nd round Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 32,358 Liverpool 2 - 0 Swansea Game Date :: 25.09.1968 Competition :: League Cup 3rd round Stadium :: Anfield Spectators :: 31,051 You miss the point again. The League Cup has never been a big thing, playing in Europe has, but that doesn't mean the quality of the competition overall is anything to shout about because some of the teams that qualified were way down in their domestic league, with other clubs higher than them but being disqualified because of the one city rule. That is the only reason you were in it in the first place ffs.

Being fair, to some extent I'd agree with you Alex, but the overiding thing for me would be that the teams who finished higher than you, and weren't allowed to enter, reduced the overall quality of the competition as compared with the UEFA cup.

Harder than the first few UEFA cups, more rounds & with the same qualification policy for the first few years. Anyone who knows football recognizes the Fairs Cup as a major trophy. The bloke is a mug, finalists included Barcelona, Juventus, Arsenal, us but nah less prestigious than a Cup Swindon managed to win and Rotherham managed to get to the final. We had four 60,000 crowds en route to winning the Fairs Cup, and the side we beat were considered by many to be the best side in Europe, Ujpest Dosza. They beat Leeds 5-0 in the Semi Final, who romped home with the English title the same season losing just two. Fucking hell, attendances yet again. If you see the fairs cup as a great honour then fine. Don't get upset though when others see it as a mickey mouse cup where many of the better teams weren't allowed to enter.

Harder than the first few UEFA cups, more rounds & with the same qualification policy for the first few years. Anyone who knows football recognizes the Fairs Cup as a major trophy. Oh yeah, the teams who finished above you being excluded because of the one city rule must look at you with envy. Where abouts did you finish to qualify?

Jesus, does your obsession ever cease Rab/Ian? Your history prior to 1970, or since for that matter, was mostly FA Cup based with only 4 titles won way back in time. By 1970 we’d won 7 titles, if you think that FA Cup wins are better or even as good as that, carry on deluding yourself. Please don’t give us your usual that the cup was more important than the title, it never was and never will be. The FA Cup was the glamour trophy; everyone wanted a day out at Wembley or the equivalent of the time. It was the end of season party when all the hard work had been done. The FA Cup, to a lesser extent ,was much like the CL is nowadays, but very few fans, then or now, would want to win the FA Cup more than the league title. So here’s one LFC fan who wouldn’t swap our history for yours, pre 1970, for anything, but each to their own of course. As for attendances (your own personal wankfest subject) our attendances have always been healthy for the time they were in whether it was under Souness or Houllier or any other manager, plus the fact that we are a two club city. I know you’ll take a couple of individual attendances to try and prove your point but most people go on season averages, and take away the rebuilding, counting by turI wasn't nstile clicks or finances, Liverpool have nothing to be ashamed of whether in the 1st or 2nd division. Take a look at your own attendances for once and stop the fuck using boycotts as a reason. At the end of the day attendances, good or bad, mean fuck all, there are too many other factors attached to them, but the biggest factor is that you don't win a trophy for them. Newcastle Liverpool If your support has always been so good how come you don't even come close to Man United? How come that even with the second biggest capacity for a number of years you aren't even in the top three of this one from one of your own sites? All time attendances Even I'm not going to be that pedantic Fop I wasn't even critcising Liverpool you pilfering, self pitying, Irish dwarf like immigrant. I was making the point that when you compare Liverpool's history from 1974 onwards we can't put an argument that we could compete, prior to 1974 our club had amassed more major trophies than Liverpool regardless how much weighting you put on the League and FA Cup and many put more weight on the FA Cup, but that wasn't the point. The point was Liverpool can come on here and abuse (in terms of the last three decades of success), but Leeds fucking hell? Nah. My second point is about you, you're a cunt and consistently a cunt at that, I don't even know why you replied other than because you're a sad cunt. Thirdly, attendance figures don't matter, but they are reflective of the size of a club throughout the ages regardless what slant you put on it, and again on that score Leeds don't compare, and as Andrew Flintoff rightly pointed out, had it not been for our 24 seasons outside the top flight, the all time average would probably have seen us 1st-3rd. Not that any of that matters presently, but I was retorting to Leeds' assertions that somehow they count, they don't. Alex, considering the support we have in East Durham and Hartlepool, they alone could sell 2,000 tickets for such a game, never mind our Tyneside support. It's 27 miles from Leeds to Rotherham not 40, and that's not forgetting much of Leeds support is from satelite towns like Batley and Wakefield which are even close. I’d rather be a pilfering, self pitying Irish dwarf than a Rab C Nesbitt/Ian Paisley tribute act any day of the week, do you have the big ugly face to match, I’d imagine you do? FA Cups don’t compare to league titles no matter how much you try to make it so and your last title was won 80 or so years ago, so how you can put an argument together that you were competing with Liverpool prior to 1974 is ludicrous, unless you mean purely on numbers of trophies. What shall we do bring Charity shields in to it and fairs cups, get a grip you idiotic fool. Titles are where it’s at and after that European Cups, and in both you are vastly outnumbered and outclassed, live with it. Liverpool haven’t even finished out of the top 8 (that was a bad year) for the last 45 years so your three decades comment makes no sense. As for Leeds, being the age I am, I always remember them as a title challenging side. I’ve got no stats to back it up but they were a bugbear to us many a season, and I’d imagine they have many top 3, top 5, finishes in their history. Thanks very much, if the likes of you sees me as a cunt I can only be grateful, the alternative doesn’t appeal at all. You’re the king of IF’s you are. Every fucking fan could place themselves anywhere in any list if they used if’s, and’s buts and maybe’s ffs.. Attendances are neither here nor there when accounting for a clubs status; it’s just one small part of it. If they are as important as you try to make them out to be then I guess you’ll have to credit Spurs with being bigger than Newcastle. Spurs 4th Regardless how much weight you feel a league title carried, we had more major trophies than you prior to 1974? Yes or no? You had less than us prior to then can you get that through your fucking dense head? As I said it's not even the point, it had fuck all to do with you, you utter tosser of a man, yet still your response is feeble. Spurs are 4th because their league history started in 1903, we had been in the league more than 10 years to that point where gates of 1,000 were common place and is all factored in to the accumulative average. From the time Spurs joined the league crowds of 30,000 and upwards were the norm. Pathetic mentioning that, but once again displaying deep gaps in your armchair garnered knowledge. Your posts get more pathetic as you go along Rab/Ian. I don't FEEL the title had more weight, I KNOW it did. If you think FA Cups compare with titles then, as already said, carry on deluding yourself. So, you don't want others butting in to your debates if they don't agree with you? That's too bad then isn't it because unless I'm banned I'll write where I like sonny boy, regardless of you throwing your toys and crying foul. Spurs are 4th, simple as, and I'm as pathetic mentioning that as you are with your constant harping on about attendances and your idiotic if's. Armchairs are very handy when there are matches on the other side of the world. Once again feeble. Did we have more major trophies than Liverpool prior to 1974 yes or no? I know you Merseysiders have issues with the truth throughout your troubled and turbulent past, but this one is looking you in the face. You don't need to expand on it because I don't generally read more than the first sentence of your incessant bollocks, did we have more major trophies than Liverpool prior to 34 years ago? Yes or no? I'd have to say no to major I'm afraid. Any club can win the FA Cup or League Cup, the best team in the country wins the league title, so no comparison for me. In number of trophies, be they whatever, then yes, I agree but I'm so glad that's your history and not ours. The Fairs cup was as mickey mouse as the league cup, so for me, your 4 league titles are your real glory, which compares favourably to many clubs. I have no issues with the truth whatsoever, it's out and out liars and make believers like you that wind me up. Our troubled and turbulent past has been just a part of our also magnificent and glorious past, and all taken on board, no problem. I'm a very proud Scouser of city and team. There you go telling lies AGAIN, you read every last word I post and your silly 'don't read more than the first sentence' defines your gross inability to cope with the truth. Obviously the FA Cup was seen as more prestigious than the league, but now what you're saying is it was never considered a major honour What a wanker. Full stop. I said I'D never considered, or consider, it a major trophy in comparison to the league. We lost the league title to Arsenal in the last minute of the season, losing to Wimbledon in the FA Cup final held no comparison for heartbreak of losing the title. We lost the title to Leeds in the 70's and the Cup to Arsenal, again no comparison to the feeling of losing the league. Yes because you're a cunt, who has not even the foggiest clue about the history of football, stick to wikipedia, and listening to daft cunts writing poetry about Anfield in pubs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH263v0OF2k <<< Football CULCHEHHHHHHHH Dave Kirkby is one of my favourite writers, he also writes plays and books. Thanks for that really enjoyed it.

Jesus, does your obsession ever cease Rab/Ian? Your history prior to 1970, or since for that matter, was mostly FA Cup based with only 4 titles won way back in time. By 1970 we’d won 7 titles, if you think that FA Cup wins are better or even as good as that, carry on deluding yourself. Please don’t give us your usual that the cup was more important than the title, it never was and never will be. The FA Cup was the glamour trophy; everyone wanted a day out at Wembley or the equivalent of the time. It was the end of season party when all the hard work had been done. The FA Cup, to a lesser extent ,was much like the CL is nowadays, but very few fans, then or now, would want to win the FA Cup more than the league title. So here’s one LFC fan who wouldn’t swap our history for yours, pre 1970, for anything, but each to their own of course. As for attendances (your own personal wankfest subject) our attendances have always been healthy for the time they were in whether it was under Souness or Houllier or any other manager, plus the fact that we are a two club city. I know you’ll take a couple of individual attendances to try and prove your point but most people go on season averages, and take away the rebuilding, counting by turI wasn't nstile clicks or finances, Liverpool have nothing to be ashamed of whether in the 1st or 2nd division. Take a look at your own attendances for once and stop the fuck using boycotts as a reason. At the end of the day attendances, good or bad, mean fuck all, there are too many other factors attached to them, but the biggest factor is that you don't win a trophy for them. Newcastle Liverpool If your support has always been so good how come you don't even come close to Man United? How come that even with the second biggest capacity for a number of years you aren't even in the top three of this one from one of your own sites? All time attendances Even I'm not going to be that pedantic Fop I wasn't even critcising Liverpool you pilfering, self pitying, Irish dwarf like immigrant. I was making the point that when you compare Liverpool's history from 1974 onwards we can't put an argument that we could compete, prior to 1974 our club had amassed more major trophies than Liverpool regardless how much weighting you put on the League and FA Cup and many put more weight on the FA Cup, but that wasn't the point. The point was Liverpool can come on here and abuse (in terms of the last three decades of success), but Leeds fucking hell? Nah. My second point is about you, you're a cunt and consistently a cunt at that, I don't even know why you replied other than because you're a sad cunt. Thirdly, attendance figures don't matter, but they are reflective of the size of a club throughout the ages regardless what slant you put on it, and again on that score Leeds don't compare, and as Andrew Flintoff rightly pointed out, had it not been for our 24 seasons outside the top flight, the all time average would probably have seen us 1st-3rd. Not that any of that matters presently, but I was retorting to Leeds' assertions that somehow they count, they don't. Alex, considering the support we have in East Durham and Hartlepool, they alone could sell 2,000 tickets for such a game, never mind our Tyneside support. It's 27 miles from Leeds to Rotherham not 40, and that's not forgetting much of Leeds support is from satelite towns like Batley and Wakefield which are even close. I’d rather be a pilfering, self pitying Irish dwarf than a Rab C Nesbitt/Ian Paisley tribute act any day of the week, do you have the big ugly face to match, I’d imagine you do? FA Cups don’t compare to league titles no matter how much you try to make it so and your last title was won 80 or so years ago, so how you can put an argument together that you were competing with Liverpool prior to 1974 is ludicrous, unless you mean purely on numbers of trophies. What shall we do bring Charity shields in to it and fairs cups, get a grip you idiotic fool. Titles are where it’s at and after that European Cups, and in both you are vastly outnumbered and outclassed, live with it. Liverpool haven’t even finished out of the top 8 (that was a bad year) for the last 45 years so your three decades comment makes no sense. As for Leeds, being the age I am, I always remember them as a title challenging side. I’ve got no stats to back it up but they were a bugbear to us many a season, and I’d imagine they have many top 3, top 5, finishes in their history. Thanks very much, if the likes of you sees me as a cunt I can only be grateful, the alternative doesn’t appeal at all. You’re the king of IF’s you are. Every fucking fan could place themselves anywhere in any list if they used if’s, and’s buts and maybe’s ffs.. Attendances are neither here nor there when accounting for a clubs status; it’s just one small part of it. If they are as important as you try to make them out to be then I guess you’ll have to credit Spurs with being bigger than Newcastle. Spurs 4th Regardless how much weight you feel a league title carried, we had more major trophies than you prior to 1974? Yes or no? You had less than us prior to then can you get that through your fucking dense head? As I said it's not even the point, it had fuck all to do with you, you utter tosser of a man, yet still your response is feeble. Spurs are 4th because their league history started in 1903, we had been in the league more than 10 years to that point where gates of 1,000 were common place and is all factored in to the accumulative average. From the time Spurs joined the league crowds of 30,000 and upwards were the norm. Pathetic mentioning that, but once again displaying deep gaps in your armchair garnered knowledge. Your posts get more pathetic as you go along Rab/Ian. I don't FEEL the title had more weight, I KNOW it did. If you think FA Cups compare with titles then, as already said, carry on deluding yourself. So, you don't want others butting in to your debates if they don't agree with you? That's too bad then isn't it because unless I'm banned I'll write where I like sonny boy, regardless of you throwing your toys and crying foul. Spurs are 4th, simple as, and I'm as pathetic mentioning that as you are with your constant harping on about attendances and your idiotic if's. Armchairs are very handy when there are matches on the other side of the world. Once again feeble. Did we have more major trophies than Liverpool prior to 1974 yes or no? I know you Merseysiders have issues with the truth throughout your troubled and turbulent past, but this one is looking you in the face. You don't need to expand on it because I don't generally read more than the first sentence of your incessant bollocks, did we have more major trophies than Liverpool prior to 34 years ago? Yes or no? I'd have to say no to major I'm afraid. Any club can win the FA Cup or League Cup, the best team in the country wins the league title, so no comparison for me. In number of trophies, be they whatever, then yes, I agree but I'm so glad that's your history and not ours. The Fairs cup was as mickey mouse as the league cup, so for me, your 4 league titles are your real glory, which compares favourably to many clubs. I have no issues with the truth whatsoever, it's out and out liars and make believers like you that wind me up. Our troubled and turbulent past has been just a part of our also magnificent and glorious past, and all taken on board, no problem. I'm a very proud Scouser of city and team. There you go telling lies AGAIN, you read every last word I post and your silly 'don't read more than the first sentence' defines your gross inability to cope with the truth. Obviously the FA Cup was seen as more prestigious than the league, but now what you're saying is it was never considered a major honour What a wanker. Full stop. I said I'D never considered, or consider, it a major trophy in comparison to the league. We lost the league title to Arsenal in the last minute of the season, losing to Wimbledon in the FA Cup final held no comparison for heartbreak of losing the title. We lost the title to Leeds in the 70's and the Cup to Arsenal, again no comparison to the feeling of losing the league.

got nicked I remember being outside a pub (I was only 14), and this bloke walked out struggling, what he'd done is lifted up the wooden tab machine, them old ones, and took it outside, smashed it on the floor and there was a free for all for the tabs, was that you? What did you want to know? I said iyam, i.e. 'if you ask me'. ahaha You're entitled to your opinion as much as the next person Alex, sometimes they're good. However to say he's a good poster is the same as saying Derek Hatton was a good politician. All he's done has defended his club against what he perceives as mistruths or whatever. He's argued his case well too imo. You're blinded by your bigotry as usual though. How has he argued his case well?? Incredible comment. How is saying "I KNOW THE LEAGUE WAS SEEN AS MORE IMPORTANT" arguing his case well, for you to agree with Dr Kenneth by saying the FAC was seen as more prestigious. Completely contradicting yourself. Sort it out eh? Overall I meant. Sorry if I've missed some of minutiae but I'm not really interested. I only dipped in because I appreciate the views of other club's fans when they're good craic. Try getting to grips with people having a different opinion to you as well btw. I'm all for visiting fans coming on here. I've said in the past I thought FCUM was the most knowledgable and interesting poster on here. I've been accomodating to Danny B on occasion, but this has had nothing to with RedShadow, I wasn't even having a go at Liverpool, and he gets emotional because I said we had more major trophies up to the mid 70's than Liverpool, we did, all I'm saying is he's a cunt, because that's what he is, and there's more than just this thread. No, it was your little comments about attendances under Souness and Houllier that made me post directly to you or has your senility got the better of you? For someone who doesn't read past my first sentence you certainly know about what I've written past that Rab/Ian.

Jesus, does your obsession ever cease Rab/Ian? Your history prior to 1970, or since for that matter, was mostly FA Cup based with only 4 titles won way back in time. By 1970 we’d won 7 titles, if you think that FA Cup wins are better or even as good as that, carry on deluding yourself. Please don’t give us your usual that the cup was more important than the title, it never was and never will be. The FA Cup was the glamour trophy; everyone wanted a day out at Wembley or the equivalent of the time. It was the end of season party when all the hard work had been done. The FA Cup, to a lesser extent ,was much like the CL is nowadays, but very few fans, then or now, would want to win the FA Cup more than the league title. So here’s one LFC fan who wouldn’t swap our history for yours, pre 1970, for anything, but each to their own of course. As for attendances (your own personal wankfest subject) our attendances have always been healthy for the time they were in whether it was under Souness or Houllier or any other manager, plus the fact that we are a two club city. I know you’ll take a couple of individual attendances to try and prove your point but most people go on season averages, and take away the rebuilding, counting by turI wasn't nstile clicks or finances, Liverpool have nothing to be ashamed of whether in the 1st or 2nd division. Take a look at your own attendances for once and stop the fuck using boycotts as a reason. At the end of the day attendances, good or bad, mean fuck all, there are too many other factors attached to them, but the biggest factor is that you don't win a trophy for them. Newcastle Liverpool If your support has always been so good how come you don't even come close to Man United? How come that even with the second biggest capacity for a number of years you aren't even in the top three of this one from one of your own sites? All time attendances Even I'm not going to be that pedantic Fop I wasn't even critcising Liverpool you pilfering, self pitying, Irish dwarf like immigrant. I was making the point that when you compare Liverpool's history from 1974 onwards we can't put an argument that we could compete, prior to 1974 our club had amassed more major trophies than Liverpool regardless how much weighting you put on the League and FA Cup and many put more weight on the FA Cup, but that wasn't the point. The point was Liverpool can come on here and abuse (in terms of the last three decades of success), but Leeds fucking hell? Nah. My second point is about you, you're a cunt and consistently a cunt at that, I don't even know why you replied other than because you're a sad cunt. Thirdly, attendance figures don't matter, but they are reflective of the size of a club throughout the ages regardless what slant you put on it, and again on that score Leeds don't compare, and as Andrew Flintoff rightly pointed out, had it not been for our 24 seasons outside the top flight, the all time average would probably have seen us 1st-3rd. Not that any of that matters presently, but I was retorting to Leeds' assertions that somehow they count, they don't. Alex, considering the support we have in East Durham and Hartlepool, they alone could sell 2,000 tickets for such a game, never mind our Tyneside support. It's 27 miles from Leeds to Rotherham not 40, and that's not forgetting much of Leeds support is from satelite towns like Batley and Wakefield which are even close. I’d rather be a pilfering, self pitying Irish dwarf than a Rab C Nesbitt/Ian Paisley tribute act any day of the week, do you have the big ugly face to match, I’d imagine you do? FA Cups don’t compare to league titles no matter how much you try to make it so and your last title was won 80 or so years ago, so how you can put an argument together that you were competing with Liverpool prior to 1974 is ludicrous, unless you mean purely on numbers of trophies. What shall we do bring Charity shields in to it and fairs cups, get a grip you idiotic fool. Titles are where it’s at and after that European Cups, and in both you are vastly outnumbered and outclassed, live with it. Liverpool haven’t even finished out of the top 8 (that was a bad year) for the last 45 years so your three decades comment makes no sense. As for Leeds, being the age I am, I always remember them as a title challenging side. I’ve got no stats to back it up but they were a bugbear to us many a season, and I’d imagine they have many top 3, top 5, finishes in their history. Thanks very much, if the likes of you sees me as a cunt I can only be grateful, the alternative doesn’t appeal at all. You’re the king of IF’s you are. Every fucking fan could place themselves anywhere in any list if they used if’s, and’s buts and maybe’s ffs.. Attendances are neither here nor there when accounting for a clubs status; it’s just one small part of it. If they are as important as you try to make them out to be then I guess you’ll have to credit Spurs with being bigger than Newcastle. Spurs 4th Regardless how much weight you feel a league title carried, we had more major trophies than you prior to 1974? Yes or no? You had less than us prior to then can you get that through your fucking dense head? As I said it's not even the point, it had fuck all to do with you, you utter tosser of a man, yet still your response is feeble. Spurs are 4th because their league history started in 1903, we had been in the league more than 10 years to that point where gates of 1,000 were common place and is all factored in to the accumulative average. From the time Spurs joined the league crowds of 30,000 and upwards were the norm. Pathetic mentioning that, but once again displaying deep gaps in your armchair garnered knowledge. Your posts get more pathetic as you go along Rab/Ian. I don't FEEL the title had more weight, I KNOW it did. If you think FA Cups compare with titles then, as already said, carry on deluding yourself. So, you don't want others butting in to your debates if they don't agree with you? That's too bad then isn't it because unless I'm banned I'll write where I like sonny boy, regardless of you throwing your toys and crying foul. Spurs are 4th, simple as, and I'm as pathetic mentioning that as you are with your constant harping on about attendances and your idiotic if's. Armchairs are very handy when there are matches on the other side of the world. Once again feeble. Did we have more major trophies than Liverpool prior to 1974 yes or no? I know you Merseysiders have issues with the truth throughout your troubled and turbulent past, but this one is looking you in the face. You don't need to expand on it because I don't generally read more than the first sentence of your incessant bollocks, did we have more major trophies than Liverpool prior to 34 years ago? Yes or no? I'd have to say no to major I'm afraid. Any club can win the FA Cup or League Cup, the best team in the country wins the league title, so no comparison for me. In number of trophies, be they whatever, then yes, I agree but I'm so glad that's your history and not ours. The Fairs cup was as mickey mouse as the league cup, so for me, your 4 league titles are your real glory, which compares favourably to many clubs. I have no issues with the truth whatsoever, it's out and out liars and make believers like you that wind me up. Our troubled and turbulent past has been just a part of our also magnificent and glorious past, and all taken on board, no problem. I'm a very proud Scouser of city and team. There you go telling lies AGAIN, you read every last word I post and your silly 'don't read more than the first sentence' defines your gross inability to cope with the truth.

Jesus, does your obsession ever cease Rab/Ian? Your history prior to 1970, or since for that matter, was mostly FA Cup based with only 4 titles won way back in time. By 1970 we’d won 7 titles, if you think that FA Cup wins are better or even as good as that, carry on deluding yourself. Please don’t give us your usual that the cup was more important than the title, it never was and never will be. The FA Cup was the glamour trophy; everyone wanted a day out at Wembley or the equivalent of the time. It was the end of season party when all the hard work had been done. The FA Cup, to a lesser extent ,was much like the CL is nowadays, but very few fans, then or now, would want to win the FA Cup more than the league title. So here’s one LFC fan who wouldn’t swap our history for yours, pre 1970, for anything, but each to their own of course. As for attendances (your own personal wankfest subject) our attendances have always been healthy for the time they were in whether it was under Souness or Houllier or any other manager, plus the fact that we are a two club city. I know you’ll take a couple of individual attendances to try and prove your point but most people go on season averages, and take away the rebuilding, counting by turI wasn't nstile clicks or finances, Liverpool have nothing to be ashamed of whether in the 1st or 2nd division. Take a look at your own attendances for once and stop the fuck using boycotts as a reason. At the end of the day attendances, good or bad, mean fuck all, there are too many other factors attached to them, but the biggest factor is that you don't win a trophy for them. Newcastle Liverpool If your support has always been so good how come you don't even come close to Man United? How come that even with the second biggest capacity for a number of years you aren't even in the top three of this one from one of your own sites? All time attendances Even I'm not going to be that pedantic Fop I wasn't even critcising Liverpool you pilfering, self pitying, Irish dwarf like immigrant. I was making the point that when you compare Liverpool's history from 1974 onwards we can't put an argument that we could compete, prior to 1974 our club had amassed more major trophies than Liverpool regardless how much weighting you put on the League and FA Cup and many put more weight on the FA Cup, but that wasn't the point. The point was Liverpool can come on here and abuse (in terms of the last three decades of success), but Leeds fucking hell? Nah. My second point is about you, you're a cunt and consistently a cunt at that, I don't even know why you replied other than because you're a sad cunt. Thirdly, attendance figures don't matter, but they are reflective of the size of a club throughout the ages regardless what slant you put on it, and again on that score Leeds don't compare, and as Andrew Flintoff rightly pointed out, had it not been for our 24 seasons outside the top flight, the all time average would probably have seen us 1st-3rd. Not that any of that matters presently, but I was retorting to Leeds' assertions that somehow they count, they don't. Alex, considering the support we have in East Durham and Hartlepool, they alone could sell 2,000 tickets for such a game, never mind our Tyneside support. It's 27 miles from Leeds to Rotherham not 40, and that's not forgetting much of Leeds support is from satelite towns like Batley and Wakefield which are even close. I’d rather be a pilfering, self pitying Irish dwarf than a Rab C Nesbitt/Ian Paisley tribute act any day of the week, do you have the big ugly face to match, I’d imagine you do? FA Cups don’t compare to league titles no matter how much you try to make it so and your last title was won 80 or so years ago, so how you can put an argument together that you were competing with Liverpool prior to 1974 is ludicrous, unless you mean purely on numbers of trophies. What shall we do bring Charity shields in to it and fairs cups, get a grip you idiotic fool. Titles are where it’s at and after that European Cups, and in both you are vastly outnumbered and outclassed, live with it. Liverpool haven’t even finished out of the top 8 (that was a bad year) for the last 45 years so your three decades comment makes no sense. As for Leeds, being the age I am, I always remember them as a title challenging side. I’ve got no stats to back it up but they were a bugbear to us many a season, and I’d imagine they have many top 3, top 5, finishes in their history. Thanks very much, if the likes of you sees me as a cunt I can only be grateful, the alternative doesn’t appeal at all. You’re the king of IF’s you are. Every fucking fan could place themselves anywhere in any list if they used if’s, and’s buts and maybe’s ffs.. Attendances are neither here nor there when accounting for a clubs status; it’s just one small part of it. If they are as important as you try to make them out to be then I guess you’ll have to credit Spurs with being bigger than Newcastle. Spurs 4th Regardless how much weight you feel a league title carried, we had more major trophies than you prior to 1974? Yes or no? You had less than us prior to then can you get that through your fucking dense head? As I said it's not even the point, it had fuck all to do with you, you utter tosser of a man, yet still your response is feeble. Spurs are 4th because their league history started in 1903, we had been in the league more than 10 years to that point where gates of 1,000 were common place and is all factored in to the accumulative average. From the time Spurs joined the league crowds of 30,000 and upwards were the norm. Pathetic mentioning that, but once again displaying deep gaps in your armchair garnered knowledge. Your posts get more pathetic as you go along Rab/Ian. I don't FEEL the title had more weight, I KNOW it did. If you think FA Cups compare with titles then, as already said, carry on deluding yourself. So, you don't want others butting in to your debates if they don't agree with you? That's too bad then isn't it because unless I'm banned I'll write where I like sonny boy, regardless of you throwing your toys and crying foul. Spurs are 4th, simple as, and I'm as pathetic mentioning that as you are with your constant harping on about attendances and your idiotic if's. Armchairs are very handy when there are matches on the other side of the world.

Can you explain to me why this scouse parafin got involved please. I confess, small tig wag

Jesus, does your obsession ever cease Rab/Ian? Your history prior to 1970, or since for that matter, was mostly FA Cup based with only 4 titles won way back in time. By 1970 we’d won 7 titles, if you think that FA Cup wins are better or even as good as that, carry on deluding yourself. Please don’t give us your usual that the cup was more important than the title, it never was and never will be. The FA Cup was the glamour trophy; everyone wanted a day out at Wembley or the equivalent of the time. It was the end of season party when all the hard work had been done. The FA Cup, to a lesser extent ,was much like the CL is nowadays, but very few fans, then or now, would want to win the FA Cup more than the league title. So here’s one LFC fan who wouldn’t swap our history for yours, pre 1970, for anything, but each to their own of course. As for attendances (your own personal wankfest subject) our attendances have always been healthy for the time they were in whether it was under Souness or Houllier or any other manager, plus the fact that we are a two club city. I know you’ll take a couple of individual attendances to try and prove your point but most people go on season averages, and take away the rebuilding, counting by turI wasn't nstile clicks or finances, Liverpool have nothing to be ashamed of whether in the 1st or 2nd division. Take a look at your own attendances for once and stop the fuck using boycotts as a reason. At the end of the day attendances, good or bad, mean fuck all, there are too many other factors attached to them, but the biggest factor is that you don't win a trophy for them. Newcastle Liverpool If your support has always been so good how come you don't even come close to Man United? How come that even with the second biggest capacity for a number of years you aren't even in the top three of this one from one of your own sites? All time attendances Even I'm not going to be that pedantic Fop I wasn't even critcising Liverpool you pilfering, self pitying, Irish dwarf like immigrant. I was making the point that when you compare Liverpool's history from 1974 onwards we can't put an argument that we could compete, prior to 1974 our club had amassed more major trophies than Liverpool regardless how much weighting you put on the League and FA Cup and many put more weight on the FA Cup, but that wasn't the point. The point was Liverpool can come on here and abuse (in terms of the last three decades of success), but Leeds fucking hell? Nah. My second point is about you, you're a cunt and consistently a cunt at that, I don't even know why you replied other than because you're a sad cunt. Thirdly, attendance figures don't matter, but they are reflective of the size of a club throughout the ages regardless what slant you put on it, and again on that score Leeds don't compare, and as Andrew Flintoff rightly pointed out, had it not been for our 24 seasons outside the top flight, the all time average would probably have seen us 1st-3rd. Not that any of that matters presently, but I was retorting to Leeds' assertions that somehow they count, they don't. Alex, considering the support we have in East Durham and Hartlepool, they alone could sell 2,000 tickets for such a game, never mind our Tyneside support. It's 27 miles from Leeds to Rotherham not 40, and that's not forgetting much of Leeds support is from satelite towns like Batley and Wakefield which are even close. I’d rather be a pilfering, self pitying Irish dwarf than a Rab C Nesbitt/Ian Paisley tribute act any day of the week, do you have the big ugly face to match, I’d imagine you do? FA Cups don’t compare to league titles no matter how much you try to make it so and your last title was won 80 or so years ago, so how you can put an argument together that you were competing with Liverpool prior to 1974 is ludicrous, unless you mean purely on numbers of trophies. What shall we do bring Charity shields in to it and fairs cups, get a grip you idiotic fool. Titles are where it’s at and after that European Cups, and in both you are vastly outnumbered and outclassed, live with it. Liverpool haven’t even finished out of the top 8 (that was a bad year) for the last 45 years so your three decades comment makes no sense. As for Leeds, being the age I am, I always remember them as a title challenging side. I’ve got no stats to back it up but they were a bugbear to us many a season, and I’d imagine they have many top 3, top 5, finishes in their history. Thanks very much, if the likes of you sees me as a cunt I can only be grateful, the alternative doesn’t appeal at all. You’re the king of IF’s you are. Every fucking fan could place themselves anywhere in any list if they used if’s, and’s buts and maybe’s ffs.. Attendances are neither here nor there when accounting for a clubs status; it’s just one small part of it. If they are as important as you try to make them out to be then I guess you’ll have to credit Spurs with being bigger than Newcastle. Spurs 4th

Paddy, I'm probably asking for trouble here but how did you find the Arena experience? I love it myself but I'm biased, I also like the MEN but it is a bit like a giant aircraft hangar for me. The Echo Arena, although it's close proximity to the river makes it very windy at times, is a class above. Not as well organised as the MEN yet though.