not_a_racist

At the club at present you might be right. Although the likes of Dyer and Robert are still here. Good players but we should be bigger than them. We should be in the market for better. As for replacements? Well the transfer window fucked that one up I'm afraid. They are here now though. the next manager doesnt have to go through this shite. Better that a bloke like Souness- who is easy to dislike - did it all. No worries at all about appeasing world class players who are one offs. Cantona, Gazza in his prime, Ronaldihno etc. But this lot arent good enough for the likes of you, me, LM to fawn over and think we should be grateful. We have done a long enough shift at SJP watching shite to know we have become bigger than that. You and LM both point out that some players need 'managing' and I accept that. However, Bobby gave them every chance and thta Norwich game and the week preceding it did it for me. Bellamys behaviour and Dyers that week was something I thought "we cant afford to get rid of good players" stick up for them. That was my first reaction. My heart said. Fuck them. I wouldnt do that to the club. would you? I just got fed up of trailing around the country for the 30th year or whatever it is to feel grateful for players who dont deserve it. On the field is fine. I want BOTH. Players who do it on AND off. Parker (who is a lot better than i thought), Emre,Owen seem to fit that bill. Shame the manager isnt good enough to get the best out of them. there will be change soo enough. I hope it ISNT Alan Shearer.

Spot on. I could have written that myself 48391[/snapback] Why didn't you then? 48392[/snapback] who says i didnt?

Spot on. I could have written that myself

Are they fuck

Don't take this the wrong way but you strike me as an opinionated cunt who talks utter bollocks. 48373[/snapback] You trying to chat him up?

Fair enough but Anderson was a bloody good right back. very athletic. good debate though. Sounds very familiar if you substitute (their) drinking for (ours) acting like prima donnas. We needed a change. The players we sold/got shot of were actually my fvourite players at various times. Robert wasnt the same after 2003 but Bellamy was getting better on the pitch. I just got sick to death of those 2 and Dyer and Bramble pissing about off the pitch and acting like they were bigger than it in the media. I'm not of the opinion that we need to be grateful for players. As a club we are WAY BIGGER than that. WE do need a new manager though.

Souness bought replacements when he could. Remember that there is a transfer window. Ferguson isolated the players. They DIDNT play regularly. They were VERY good players. Better than we have sold for certain. Ferguson was pilloried for selling them. the replacements were judged to be inadequate. The point of the question regarding value is that Ferguson isolated players. Values plummeted as a direct result. Is that good management? Its not. In Souness' or Fergusons time. However, Bellamy used the transfer window to try his luck at coming back. He isnt welcome. The away support at Blackburn indicated that. Stam went. Why? Becasue Ferguson BELIEVED he hadnt towed the line. Ferguson was hammered for getting rid of players and replacing htem with those the fans felt were inferior. Sound familiar? the od ones were still at the club but all and sundry knew they had no future. Strachan, Moses, Whiteside and McGrath were still at the club. the world and his wife knew they werent playing regulalry and werent wanted. Technically Butt and Robert are still at our club. Does that make souness look better or worse in time? In 20 years someone will say : He bought Luque in 2005. He didnt sell Robert 'til 2006. The players at Man Utd were gone. That is the point. even if technically they were still there. At least we know Owen is better than Bellamy. McGrath and Strachan always were better than their direct replacements. NB: Viv Anderson was BOUGHT as a right back. JJ played at left back he isnt one Very similar situations but in fact Fergie probably moved quicker.

You have repeated yourself. Stam didnt do what Fergie wanted. He went. Youre positions are all over the place: Midfield: Moses out - Replacement? Ince wasnt out of nappies and struggled initially. He took a long while to settle. Neil Webb. Injured and pissed funnily enough. Strachan. Played spordically. Centre half: McGrath. Replacement was Bruce who played with various. Pallister was called Bambi at the time. It wasnt a compliment. Anderson was a right back NOT a centre half McClair played up front for Man Utd at the time Not midfield. First 30 goal player if you recall. So basically what you are saying is that they werent sold? They werent playing regularly either. He swept them out in time. Check the team sheets though. They are there on the Man utd fan sites. These players were used infrequently. It wasnt a case of flogging them so much as not using them. Souness has got shot of TWO although he did use one of them. Bellamy and Robert. He has replaced them with Luque and Owen. Answer this. How much was Webb? Ince? Pallister? McClair? Bruce? How much did they sell Strachan, McGrath and Whiteside for? Their value had plummeted. The analogy stands. Stam simply confirms it. Nb: Drinking had hardly made McGrath worthless. He always was exceptional. Strachan won the league within 2 seasons and was exceptional. Better than you could imagine. They were THAT good - certainly better than Man Utd had at the time. So why did they go?

The last sentence sums it up though. Cross Fergie and youre out. Nb: they didnt replace Remi Moses either and he went too. Basically the drinkers went. Our club had very similar problems. We got shot of two staight away. Man Utd got shot of more than two - look a tteam sheets not sale dates. BUT the squad then was very very different in size to those nowadays. Big changes occurred. I dont doubt for a moment that the likes of Dyer will go in time. Is his contract is there at to ensure he doesnt go next summer for free? The basic analogy? Stam towed the line and he was in. He didnt and he was out. Moses, Strachan, McGrath(always was a fantastic player), Whiteside and Robson were exceptional and they should have won more than they did when together. One of the main reasons they didnt was their off the field behaviour.

McGrath wasnt replaced well enough at first Whiteside wasnt replaced well enough at first Strachan wasnt replaced well enough at fisrt Stam hasnt been replaced. They ended up paying THIRTY million quid to inadequately replace him. That is shit management too I suppose. If that is all that it about. It isnt though. Robson was alone. His crew had gone. The culture of the club changed. They won things. Big things. there is no doubt at all that the culture of NUFC from 2003 onwards was bad. WE were rotten. We needed to change. Sadly we needed a manager who is clearly not easy to like and whi isnt the best on the field to sort out the tossers who couldnt behave of it. We should have got someone else. Nobody wanted the job. I suspect the same players would have left though.

Fair point about Owen being Shearers replacement. In some ways he is. In the Martin jol - big one /small one way he is Bellamys. But we both know what we mean. Bellamy was one of my favourite players. My club, your club ,however, is more important than any player and any manager. Well, I like players with pace. (something we have lots of in the current squad and none of tomorrow) Robert, Dyer and Bellamy had/have it and were fantastic ot watch. Loved them. It was the Norwich match that did it with Bellamy. As an aside, i would have got rid of Dyer and Robert as well. You, me, LM have been going to matches for a combined century. Thgat summer and the previous season i saw well paid individuals who had been managed in the sense that they were given the freedom to get on with their lives by SBR. they threw it back in his face. He should have gone but he didnt deserve that. I dont like Souness but I know he saw through Bellamy. i had this same conversation with my dad. He simply said. You havent liked a player as much since Tommy Craig. What changed? In the last 30 years we have got used to tolerating good players who think we should appreciate their quirks. Personally, I want more now. they ground me down. I am sick to the back teeth in the last few years of reading about tossers like CB running to the media when they dont like something. Dyer pissing up walls. Robert moaning. this isnt about Souness. He needs shifting now he has done his job. We have a club that is bigger than players like Dyer, Bellamy, Bowyer (although he has kept his nose cleanish) We needed to act it. This summer we started to look like it. We all get worked up about it all but in short. They werent doing enough in terms of professionalism. They werent good enough as players for me to fawn over them. I want more. I certainly want more than Graeme Souness but some fucker had to get their hands dirty. Might as well be someone it is easy to dislike.

I found him very likeable. The problem for me was that I always liked him and bought into the (what I now regard to be) bullshit that Robson was saying about him being the perfect young gent. I couldn't understand why so many had a problem with him and I see most of my football on television so I wasn't seeing the same things. So this season I watched him very closely before he went and I couldn't believe what he was doing. It wasn't just bad games, it was a lack of commitment, and shockingly bad, completely ineffectual performances. I think it's unfortunate that in football emotions running very high can cause fans to be blinded and I think it's possible Jenas used the abuse he was getting as an excuse to cop out, blame the fans. That 'goldfish bowl' comment was a none too subtle swipe at Newcastle. At some point his performances went from low confidence to low effort and I don't know when that happened. There's also the issue that Spurs are where Newcastle where a few years ago, it's actually quite funny to listen to their hype with investing in youth, investing in a British core, like they haven't watched Newcastle's journey recently. But if certain pivotal players like Jenas can reach their potential then they'll be more than just hype. So I can't wish him well. He won't make it anyway, he hasn't got the character. When things are going well he may shine but when the going gets tough he hasn't got the bottle. And he's playing for Spurs, not Chelsea so there will be bad times. 48331[/snapback] You dont sound like you like him at all. I have watched the same games. Look at Fulham (who beat Liverpool 2:0 today) Lee Bowyer had the worst and most unprofessional game I have seen from anyone. He tried and failed to pick a fight with a better player - Diop. He couldnt catch him and when he did he got outplayed. He also failed ot recognise that his personal vendetta had left us without anyone in the place he was meant to fill. It was appalling. He ran around though and that means 100% to some. It was 100% alright. Unprofessional. Jenas played and looked like a player leaving. We have seen it a million times. I dont blame the lad. As for Newcastle being a goldfish bowl? It is. It really is big village. A spider farts in Wallsend and people are talking about it Walker. It was an unwise remark though. One of them deserved abuse for lack of effort for the team. Which one? Not sure if you went to the Fulham game but I couldnt believe what i saw when he came on.

Welcome

British weather tbh. 48334[/snapback]

Because he has standards and is a man of principle. That is what we know. I read it in the quality press and decent web sites like the BBC. Where is the 'pissed' version from?