The Fish

Most really good players need that selfish ego to really get to their peak. Shearer had it, Cole had it, Ginola, Robert, Cabaye, and so on. I can't really think of a great player who wasn't a bit selfish. Revisionist bollocks. Ginola was famously lazy, an oft referenced quote from Beresford calls him out for it.

I meant that Ginola was a winger and the players he had ahead of him were centre forwards. HBA wasn't a classic winger and is more a wide forward/attacking midfielder, and the players he had ahead of him weren't the types of striker that would best benefit from him, nor would he benefit from. He'd have been better off playing alongside deeper lying players or busy players making runs. I wouldn't, but then I can confirm that HBA's mental attributes aren't all below 5.

Well, I know what you're saying, but they're defending well for 90% of the game. They're not getting spanked, they're just switching off. I'd say their issue is game management and leadership.

I remember Ginola running down blind alleys, but yeah he would cross more than HBA did, but then, he had Sir Les and Shearer to aim for and was more of an old fashioned winger. Robert was too, but they both did fuck all to help out Beresford or Bernard. Trouble is, long enough time has passed to sand down the rough edges of their Newcastle career, now they're revered, but at the time there were plenty of people moaning on that they didn't get stuck in. Just like, in 5 years time when we've signed some fancy Dan winger who has unbelievable talent, there'll be people moaning that he doesn't track back. Because they're enemies of football and want a team of James Perchs.

Mackems aren't the only ones who want him back apparently; https://www.villatalk.com/topic/15605-next-villa-manager/

Was thinking for coffee? I thought tea was supposed to be made with boiling water?

Can you set it to pour out water that's just under boiling?

W D L 1 7 3 That's fucking tragic form for a team hoping to get back into the top flight at the first time of asking. If games finished on 80 minutes, they'd be on 16pts!

Then the argument is doomed to continue forever, because the defence of him is in response to the over-the-top criticism. As an aside, you seem to be remembering a different David Ginola and Laurent Robert to me... both of them were selfish. One of the most repeated criticism of Robert was that he was a lazy selfish prick.

Well, he did when he was being played in the right system, but that system wasn't Pardew's system and so when the ball is sailing overhead I'm not sure we can demand too much from the lad. And when people say he's fat I struggle to remember a game when he was blowing out of his arse? Certainly no more than Sissoko, Cabaye, Cisse, Ba etc. Yet I do remember him getting moaning arseholes out their seats with his ability on the ball. I've not seen a single fan of his say he's perfect, but the criticism from his detractors goes way over the top. Ginola 75 games - 7 goals. HBA 86 games - 14 goals. Robert 181 games - 32 goals. And you have to consider who the lazy french wingers were playing with/for. Ginola had two of Newcastle greatest ever players in his team, plus legends in their own right dotted throughout the squad. Robert also enjoyed remarkable colleagues. HBA had James Perch and Danny Guthrie. He's definitely flawed and certainly deserves some criticism, but honestly, some of the abuse levelled at him should be reserved for ex-managers and/or sunderland players.

Jesus, a multitude of reasons. Ginola was as lazy and temperamental as Ben Arfa, but he played under a great manager, at a great time and left at his peak. Shearer's arrogance and selfishness wasn't important when stacked up against his previous goals and Leadership. Ben Arfa played under a bad manager during a shitty time and left under a cloud. I seem to recall Newcastle fans slating Robert because he didn't add tracking back to the goals, the assists and the skills. There's just a subset of football fans that think that graft trumps guile and that makes me glum.

Don't get precious, all players have failings but some players are canonised.

This... this has literally never happened before. Lads! He wants me to type more.

Spent a cuntload on Fellaini though.

I wonder what the odds are on Moyes?

Didn't he already say that the dust goes into his garage?

My mate's parents house has something similar to that. There's a foot-operated rubber button ont he floor that turns on a vacuum and most of the cupboards have, at their base, a grate. Sweep the stuff to the side, stand on the button, abracadabra and the dust is gone. I think it's only in their kitchen though. I did ask that if they're sweeping the stuff to the side, why don't they just go round with a vacuum, but apparently that's not the point.

Sam, Pearson, and it's got to be the likes of Eriksson, Pardew, right?

It no doubt helped him get where he got, but it also meant that he wasn't always doing what was best for Newcastle United.

His ego, for one.

A bag? You luddite!

I don't have a Brompton and technically the Aga belongs to my lass, but the Dyson is mine.

Unless they're matching your Ski Goggles?