The Fish

True enough. Mind you given the current approach isn't bearing much fruit, would it be better for the long term future of Sunderland if they allowed Moyes to start with a clean slate in the Championship? He could get shot of players who do just enough to keep them up but haven't the ability or wherewithal to get them comfortably safe? He could get game time for some of their young players who're not good enough for the Premier League at the minute. Certainly not a risk he can take when they're having to fight tooth and nail for every point. £10m for a quality but ageing Premier League striker won't go far on Premier League players, but in the Championship we've been able to sign a CB & a RB of genuine quality.

The fewm on RTG would be a masterclass in pant-pissing if Defoe left. Relegation assured, Moyes would leave, administration to follow, winding up order in the post. But they'd still be better than the Mags because they sent 'em down and once beat them 9-1. FTM etcetera

This is fucking disgrace of a post and you should be ashamed.

Or Murphy's inclusion has little to do with Mitrovic and more to do with rotating the bench a bit? Nobody says playing Anita ahead of Yedlin is to give Yedlin a kick up the arse, nor having Lazaar on the bench is because Gamez is poor in training. It's just accepted that the squad is rotated a bit. Yet, Mitro's exclusion is because he's got a bad attitude in training?

Less the owners and more the fans. I'm sure they had issues with him leaving. Might be wrong like.

He might get a run of games but at Sunderland he has the comfort of knowing that barring injury or suspension he's their main man. Moyes would rather play with him and Anichebe than drop Defoe. West Ham have Antonio, Ayew, Carroll, Calleri, Valencia, Sakho and Zaza who can play as a striker and while some are shit, some aren't fit and some can play elsewhere they're still challengers to his spot. He might be at the head of the queue but at Sunderland there isn't really a queue. I wonder how his history with West Ham would affect his decision?

Obviously I've no problem with Rafa starting Gayle given his preposterous scoring record at the minute, but I don't understand the limited time Mitro is getting from the bench. I'm not sure Murphy's position on the bench was necessarily because Mitro's application is poor, it could just as well be that Murphy hasn't been making the bench at all and he deserved a shot. Doesn't mean Mitro's been bad in training, just that Murphy earned his spot. Has to be said Murphy didn't really do anything against Blackburn to suggest he'll have taken that substitute spot away from Mitro going forward. I wonder if we'd been creating more from the wings would Mitrovic have featured more? None of our wide men have been particularly catching the eye and I think a lot of our goals have come through short passes rather than traditional crosses. I've tried to find somewhere that details the areas our assists come from, but have come up short. Mitro's a decent young player, who certainly applies himself during the game, he need to calm down for sure, but he's never going to learn how to deal with the hustle and bustle of English football if he never gets experience of it.

I wonder what he's on there and how his contract is structured. If they're paying him a normal salary and it's c70k I can't see West Ham matching that when he'll surely be an option up front, rather than the main man?

I think there'd have to be a few dominoes toppling before Sunderland's hopes of keeping Defoe collapse entirely; West Ham cement their interest, raising the fee to a level that has to be taken seriously Defoe's representatives are confident he'll not get a pay rise if he stays commensurate with his demonstrated value to their club Short, via Moyes, fails to give assurances about Sunderland's future with Defoe Kone/Pickford or another important Sunderland player leaves early on in the window I agree with ewerk that it's more likely than not he'll stay as I think West Ham's maximum bid for Defoe will fall significantly short of Sunderland's valuation. They've offered £5m to test the waters and gauge interest from both Sunderland and Defoe's representatives, but they'll need to double (if not treble) that before Short thinks about entertaining the bid, and I'm not sure they will. That said, it's entirely possible that: West Ham come in with a c£10m bid, Defoe's reps get in his ear, Sunderland don't strengthen, and in fact weaken in the window. If all those things happen, I could see Defoe's reps orchestrating a move. And if that happens I could see Old Big Eyes telling Short to go fuck himself.

Apparently West Ham have bid £5m for Defoe. Now, obviously the mackems wont accept that, but it does show that West Ham are serious in their pursuit. I wonder how high they'll need to go to get their man?

One of the things I always make sure I get in their contract is an optional contract extension. So if they're fussing and moaning and want to leave for Real Madrid, or whatever, I can bump the fee up a bit by extending their contract.

Don't tease

If we're spending that kind of money, I'd prefer us to go for Hourihane to be honest.

They're not mutually exclusive though. For this club to sack off the FA Cup for another season would be maddening. Especially when we're still comfortably on track for promotion and while the last few games haven't been great, we haven't plunged down the league. We remain odds on for the title, let alone finishing in the automatic spots. Benitez will strengthen in January and his teams traditionally finish the season strongly. Honestly can everyone stop panicking?!

Why do you seem more confident in Brighton's ascension than ours?

No where near.

What's the rest of your squad like? Could you play Aarons and Ritchie as wide men with Mitro and Gayle as TM & Poacher respectively?

You dread too often mate. We're comfortably clear of the promotion spots, we've money to spend in January and when Shelvey returns we'll be in a much better state. Don't worry, we've got this.

To be honest, had Shelvey been available I think we'd have won every game.

It's reasonable to criticise after a defeat, no?

HF has gone mad with Power. If we don't beat Birmingham now, the fault lies at his feet alone. Either Wykiki's or my thread guaranteed success, but with HF's interference we're running the risk of fucking this one up.

20 minutes late, or is this simply Birmingham Thread 2.0? After some bug fixes?

Nobody is above criticism.

Why doesn't winning titles mean anything? Isn't that what a football career is about (in addition to but not inferior to earning a fuck ton of money?)

What what what? What's this? What fucking nonsense bullshit is this right now?