The Fish

well, there is that. How was Gamez? I didn't see much of the game at all. He's not been convincing when I have seen him previously.

What flaws do you see? (not saying there aren't any, just curious) Swear I saw somewhere that Anita picked up a knock and that's why Gamez played.

Who've they face in the last 6 though? 4 Leeds D (h) 9 Preston W (h) 13 Cardiff D (a) 18 Forest W (h) 22 Bristol W (a) 23 Wigan W (h) They're a good side going forward, but they do give up a lot of shots. Plus, we owe them.

I suppose you could complain that the title was misleading?

They've 4 wins and 2 draws in their last 6 games, but mostly against sides at the wrong end of the table ( Wigan, Forest, Bristol, Preston and draws against Cardiff and Leeds). Last 6 away games W2 D2 L2 F7 A5 I'm going for 3-0 NUFC To Score 0 - 1 - Kevin Carr's Gloves, Dr Gloom, wykikitoon, OTF, barnabox, Dougle 2 - StoneColdStephenIreland, Rayvin, ewerk, Holden McGroin, tooner, strawb, Ant, rogerbarton, LooneyToony, Graing 3 - The Fish, Andrew, Howay, Happy Face, acrossthepond, Anorthernsoul, Kitman, TheGingerQuiff, ohhh_yeah, Tom 4+ - David Kelly, adios, MiddleAgeCool, scoobos NUFC To Concede 0 - The Fish, Howay, Kevin Carr's Gloves, Rayvin, ewerk, Happy Face, wykikitoon, OTF, Kitman, scoobos, Dougle, Tom, Graing 1 - Andrew, David Kelly, StoneColdStephenIreland, adios, acrossthepond, Anorthernsoul, tooner, MiddleAgeCool, strawb, Ant, rogerbarton, barnabox, LooneyToony, ohhh_yeah 2 - Dr Gloom, Holden McGroin, TheGingerQuiff 3 - 4+ -

Twice as many shots, 5 times as many on target, hit the woodwork once, and their 'keeper had a very good game. I'm happy with a 0-0.

I won't hold it against you. Because I've the beginnings of man flu. Probably because I'm exhausted proving all you lot wrong.

Even in this thread I've seen HF, Parky, and a couple others be over critical. But I do take your point

I think he's had some good games, some decent cameos, some anonymous substitute appearances and some stinkers. I can see that he's raw, that he's lacking in assurance and that he's making mistakes more experienced players wouldn't. He hasn't deserved to start ahead of Gayle, Murphy has taken his opportunities well and deserves the starts he's had. Rafa rotates most positions and Atsu's absences aren't evidence that Rafa's given up on him, same is true of Perez, Yedlin, Lazaar et al. People seem to be confusing my defence of Mitrovic as some kind of blind faith in him, when really it's a call for calm and for people to stop overreacting He's a good young player who's got a good future. I think he'd score more in a different system, but we shouldn't change our system to fit him. He'd score more if he got longer than 10 minute cameos, so that he could build experience to better take his opportunities when they come by. You've seen yourself people claiming he can't make it in the Premier League despite him scoring in the Premier League. That he can't score in the Championship even though he has scored in the championship. It just seems backwards to me.

In 8 starts?

Except that's not true and a misrepresentation. He scored 9 last year and 4 in a season where he's not played much. I have not called for him to start more games and in fact agreed that Murphy should start tonight. The only thing I've done throughout this thread is given evidence that supports my position that the criticism of Mitrovic is over the top and ignores the bigger picture; the style we play, the time he's getting, when in the game he's featuring, the make up of the team he plays with, his age, and so on. Your shot accuracy stat was designed to criticise Mitrovic, unfairly in my eyes. Murphy has better SA than every top striker in the league. Better than Gayle, should Rafa start Murphy ahead of Dwighty? No, of course not.

15 goals since he arrived= not many.

Meagre return = Amongst the top 5 for goals and assist at the club (and more goals than Murphy)?

Aye, agree with this, but I think he'll learn how to be a lone striker because that's how most teams play, so he'll have to. Just wanted to say that HF's shot accuracy stat is really misleading. Last season Murphy was around 44%, which is about par for non-league-leading strikers. 80% is aberrant rather than the norm. fwiw 15/16, when Mitrovic was actually a 1st team striker, his shot accuracy was 49% which was better than Murphy's, Benteke's, Berahino's.

Then I've not explained it clearly. Carroll was good in the Championship because he was 1st choice striker, playing in a system that was catered to his style and alongside an experienced striker, in a very settled, superior team of experienced (and in some cases international) players. Mitrovic is decent in the championship (1/2 GpS) despite not being first choice, playing in a system that is catered to a slight, mobile striker, and often at the front of a much changed side. Murphy in the past 2 years he's played in England he has managed 3,574 minutes in 49 appearances, with 14 goals and 8 assists. Mitrovic in the past 2 years he's played in England he has managed 3,265 minutes in 59 appearances, with 15 goals and 8 assists. One of those was a very experienced striker in the second tier, the other was a kid from Belgium who joined a team bound for the drop and hasn't played much since. When Murphy comes into the team he knows the league he's played in for most of his career, he knows the role he's played for a decade and he's doing what he's done for his entire career; scoring a few goals but mostly providing for others. When Mitrovic comes into the team he's learning the league, he's learning the role and he's not doing half as bad as people are making out. fwiw I guarantee we wouldn't have been given the 2nd goal against Huddersfield had Mitrovic replicated Murphy's challenge.

Except for Asoro, Gooch and Honeyman who've already got 12 appearances between them? 5 as starts?

I don't agree that the facts defy my opinion. You yourself say you thought he'd get some confidence banging away a few goals. Mitrovic hasn't played that much, he's often only played about 10 minutes at the end of games. When he has played it's often in a much changed side and so on. Compare that to Carroll. He was turbo shit in the top flight, couldn't finish for toffee but was all right in the air, couldn't find a teammate with a pass, and was a bit of an arsehole off the pitch too. Few thought he'd be up to much in the 2nd tier. Turns out Big Andy was one of the first names on the team sheet, the system was tailor made for him and he had an experienced strike partner in Nolan to bring him along. He scored 17 in 39, picking up 7 yellows on his way. Took that form into the Premier League and was, at the time, one of the most highly rated English players.

I'd say Crouch's finishing has improved with age, and bear in mind we're not talking about a player at his peak improving his finishing further, we're talking about a kid who is still learning the game.

Not just talking about RTG, Asoro's been attracting admiring gazes for a while now, and Pickford is widely regarded as one of the brightest goalkeeping prospects I the country. but yeah, there's a post on there demanding to know just exactly "Which current Championship players are better in their respective positions than the players I mentioned?" (Pickford, Oviedo, N'Dong, Rodwell, Watmore and, Borini)

You say he doesn't get into the right position, but how often does the cross come across at 6'-7'? It makes sense but the crosses are mostly for a striker like Gayle, low, fast and to the near post, or a pull back. Last time we were down here we were forever putting in high crosses from deep for Ameobi, Best, Carroll, Harewood et al. I'm never going to convince people, but I've seen enough in him to think he'll become a decent striker. I also will take into account the lack of game time, the style of play and so on. I honestly think the excessive criticism he gets is a direct reaction to the only semi-serious adulation he gets from the young fans. Just like older fans used to go spare because Ameobi's name got sung a lot.

Asoro, Gooch (no seriously), Honeyman, Maja are the ones people seem most excited about.

I know you didn't say he was 28, my point was that you have written off a 22yr old, not called time on a 28yr old. It's not that you've been disappointed with his progress, not frustrated with his immaturity, you've plain old written him off at 22. I do know that loads don't make it, Ranger is a perfect example. But I can see the foundations for a decent player and, just as importantly imo, I can see the right application and eagerness to learn. Mitrovic can finish, despite you saying he can't, he links up well despite not playing much, he needs to mature on the pitch, but that's only going to happen if he's actually getting on the pitch. This isn't a lazy but talented Sissoko, Mitrovic has potential and the desire to strive towards it. The biggest negatives in his game will be softened by age/experience.

Welp, that's the youtube compilation of choice to accompany my lunch now, isn't it?

There's currently a few highly rated youngsters on the fringe.