The Fish

You've got me on tenterhooks here.

Had they won last night they'd have been 7th, 3pts off 3rd. Performance metrics have them slap bang in the middle of the league. They're one of the most intense pressing sides in the league. They should be pleased with the obvious progress from League One Play Off winners, to comfortably ensconced in Championship midtable within a season. That's no mean feat. Instead you've got the biggest Sunderland message board genuinely discussing getting rid of the manager. Kind of delewded, don'tcha think?

Not yet, but understandably they're joint favourites for the drop.

True, but he's 29yrs old, so he's still probably got 2-3 seasons left. Move to Forest in January, Lead them back up next season as a senior pro. Lovely welcome back at St James', you know the whole applaud his first touch then boo his next, he laughs, we laugh, lovely stuff. Then we put the 5 past him to secure the title.

This is it for me. Club management and International management are cousins, but not the same. Southgate won't have performed his way into consideration for the big clubs, and I can honestly only see successful club managers who've achieved all they want having a tilt at the International side of things.

Well, sure, I guess. I mean, if one unlikely hypothetical is followed by another unlikely hypothetical, it would change the equation. What is way more likely is that Gareth Southgate keeps his job until the end of the Euros, at least given the only people who want him out of the job so far are the usual gobshites. The FA will surely be happy with the progress under Southgate, and for reaching the quarter finals, again. The players are happy with Southgate. The majority of the thinking press are happy with Southgate. The majority of the England fans are, at worst, ambivalent. It's only pants pissing pussies who're throwing their toys out the pram because England's good performance in the World Cup wasn't good enough for them.

I don't think it's surprising at all that Allardyce was seen as a good choice at the time, considering who was making the decision.

I enjoyed that someone posted evidence that goals are more likely scored late in games if the fans stick by the team. The considered response to that? "Stop talking shite". "I see your proof, I understand your logic, and it makes sense, buuuuuut I'm going to dismiss it out of hand because I don't like it!"

Dougle making a strong case for Bed Wetter in Chief. The Grand High Poobah of Bed-Wetterstan No chance of Howe taking the England job any time soon, man. A. Howe's at the beginning of a project and he's clearly enjoying it. B. That project is backed by huge funds, so Eddie's got a real chance of creating a legacy, as he did at Bournemouth. C. The ambitions of the owners are boundless, so managerial and club honours are a real possibility. D. Howe's spoken warmly and often about working daily with players, developing them over time. Something he can't do with an international side. E. Howe's preferred style requires regular drilling, the kind of high intensity, highly intelligent pressing cannot be achieved without almost constant maintenance.

God's Own Counteh

They're not Greek.

Nottingham Forest?

So why do you want Southgate gone? But for 'getting robbed' England would be in the Semi Finals of the World Cup with a decent chance of getting to the final. No England manager has achieved the same degree of success as Southgate has for something like 40 years? You say we've got good players like Saka, Grealish, Maddison etal. But Southgate's still got a pretty shallow pool to fish in for CBs, Centre Mids, left backs. England just aren't that good.

If anyone's got a forwarding address, he can have it for the cost of postage.

Back of a fag packet maths says that 2007-2016 (their top flight seasons) they spent £363m and made £165m. We spent £343m and made £308m. So, Gross and Net they outspent us.

Yeah, I don't get the hate for Southgate, done better than a stack of managers have. Like you say, he's been on the shitty end of some fine margins or suspect decisions. Tough shit, that's knock-out football. Honestly? I genuinely think it's English exceptionalism at play. I wonder if the expectations around the England side suffer because of the quality on show in the Premier League, which is erroneously considered a reflection of English football. England have a decent international squad, but there are still glaring weaknesses; CB, Centre Mid etc. Sure England have got a chance in the tournaments, but the expectations are that England should win the fucking thing and play great football on the way.

Better ways to spend £40m imo

I got a signed Pardew print off a mate one Christmas. It was funny, I wasn't wound up. And I'm sure my mate isn't telling everyone what a magnificent own it was.

That's a good point to be honest. In the 14 seasons that Ashley was taking the legs out from under us, they finished above us 5 times (twice by virtue of us not being in the PL). We finished above them 9 times. Their average finish was 15th, buoyed largely by one 10th placed finish in 2010/11. Our average finish was 13th. Average point return was 38. Ours was 45pts. Only got more than 40pts in 3/14 seasons. We managed it 10/12 times. In those 14yrs they didn't have a single season with a positive GD. We only managed it twice. They had over a decade to sort their shit out, and instead tumbled down the leagues in spectacular fashion. We sorted it out in under a year. Yes, we spent a bit, but you can't tell me that with the proper planning, they couldn't have achieved a good return over 10 seasons?

I'm out.

Jonjo isn't defensively minded enough for me. I want David Batty kicking seven shades of shit out of everyone.

True enough. I'd love either of them at Newcastle to be honest. But I genuinely think the biggest weaknesses in the current squad are a true number 6 (DM), a Trippier-esque left back and depth at CF, RB, and maybe CB.

I cannot believe you forgot Lee Johnson. He won the Pizza Cup don'tcha know.