FCUM

Sir Bobby didn't win the title, did he? So aye, Paisley. Aye, yer right He only got Ipswich to 2nd place, for some reason I always think of him having won the league with them

Being realistic though I can't see you getting Heinze, I was more interested if anybody would fancy Silvestre who would be available for a couple of years.

Bearing in mind that to most football supporters, Fergie, Wenger & Mourinho (whilst being great managers) are all obnoxious twats When was the last time a nice guy won the title? Daglish? Nar, he was an obnoxious twat too Wilko.... Nar.... Do we have to go all the way back to Paisley and Sir Bobby

I think you suffered from the major flaw in Keegan's make-up, his ability to stick around. Another few years under Keegan might well have cemented you in the same bracket. Purely a personal point of view that I know many on here disagree with but... I had a lot of respect for Sir John Hall and can't help feeling things would have panned out better if he'd stayed at the helm longer.

Both are very similar in their gift of 'concentration' though Do you reckon Heinze's not quite the player he was (before he got injured) or do you just think he's struggling for form a bit? Two noticable things about Heinze. 1) He doesn't seem able to jump off the ground. Although aerial ability might not be a pre-requisite for a full back you still want them to be able to defend set pieces in the air. I'm not really sure if this is a legacy of the injury or if he was as bad before but I didn't notice it. 2) He takes a position too far in front of the guy he's marking, usually about 10 yards in front giving them ample time to pick a pass. He seems shit scared to get close, obviously worried he'll get done for pace. Again, possibly a legacy of the injury.

Both are very similar in their gift of 'concentration' though

Ouch, you'll get flamed for that Plethora of left backs at Man Utd if they do get him. Evra, Heinze, Silvestre, Bale Anybody fancy Mickey Silvestre? Titus MK 2

Couldn't agree more. Arsenal were a 'fashionable' club before Wenger but he's transformed them from a boring and ageing team into an exciting and largely young one on relatively limited resources. I'm not sure Mourhino could have done that, Gemmill. Really? Is that why Chris Sutton turned them down to sign for Blackburn and Sheringham chose FSpurs over them? They never used to sell out even as well, I remember they used to give us the whole Clock End, first few seasons in the Premiership. Do you seriously think Bergkamp came to Arsenal for anything other money, he certainly didn't come to be coached by Rioch and Houston that's for certain. I was thinking more in George Graham's reign not Rioch's short tenure. They did win 6 major trophies during 8 years. Although I accept (and agree) your point on their crowds.

Couldn't agree more. Arsenal were a 'fashionable' club before Wenger but he's transformed them from a boring and ageing team into an exciting and largely young one on relatively limited resources. I'm not sure Mourhino could have done that, Gemmill.

Unfortunately the know nothing fuckwits are not only confined to Chelsea, Gemmill. I browsed a Man Utd forum last night to see the following thread titles Yes, they might have been in the minority but it was like reading fuckwit central : I can't wait until Giggs retires Sack The Cunt! (Fergie) Gary Neville is one fucking overated cunt saha ...the white turtle necked twat Fergie at fault AGAIN Van Der Sar is fucking shit fergie out

I still think it is a fairly level playing field (within the top 4), Gemmill. I think Arsenal are still capable of taking any of the other teams apart on their day and now have the benefit of increased gate revenues. Even if Chelsea bullet Mourhino, Abramovich will still throw money at them (arguably more so to finance a new manager). Man Utd still probably have the profile to replace Fergie with another top class manager.

What a load of shite. The Munich air crash happened in 1958. How long prior would you like to go? Let's take a decade before Munich say 1948. Manchester United average attendance in that season 54,890. Their 'global market presence' as you put it is largely down to being the dominant team in the 1990's when the TV export boom to Asia etc was at it's height. I wouldn't argue with you that they have been succesful in marketing their 'brand' (yuk) but that was 'earned' with back to back doubles and a treble when the export boom of football was at it's height. Newcastle United's average attendance in that self same season 56,283 The point I was trying to make was not to compare attendances with other clubs but to demonstrate that Man Utd's crowds pre the Munich disaster were every bit as good as (if not better) than in the aftermath. The vast majority of club's income in those days was through the gate and not through marketing hype. Ergo I don't think, as FOP was suggesting that Munich made a significant difference to the club's wealth. FOP, you say they were the only English club many in Europe or the rest of the world knew prior to Liverpool's domination. Again I would say this was about timing. Liverpool's domination started in the 1970s, prior to that Football only got any real TV exposure in the late 1960s at the same time as Man Utd were the first English side to win the European Cup and Bestie became 'El Beatle' etc. You can argue (and I wouldn't disagree) that it's not been a level playing field for some time regarding revenues but I'd still argue that their wealth (although £600 million in debt now) has still been self generated. You could say they were 'lucky' in being the dominant club in both the late 60s when football first started to get TV exposure and again in the 1990s when we saw the marketing boom to Asia etc but that 'luck' was still self generated.

In domestic football (of those I've watched) it would have to be Greaves, Law, Lineker in that order. Strange thing is though when we talk about great finishers (me included) we always concentrate on the 'shooting' finishers and forget the great headers like Wyn Davies etc.

What a load of shite. The Munich air crash happened in 1958. How long prior would you like to go? Let's take a decade before Munich say 1948. Manchester United average attendance in that season 54,890. Their 'global market presence' as you put it is largely down to being the dominant team in the 1990's when the TV export boom to Asia etc was at it's height. I wouldn't argue with you that they have been succesful in marketing their 'brand' (yuk) but that was 'earned' with back to back doubles and a treble when the export boom of football was at it's height.

Pity he didn't do the same with several North East bookmakers I know before he left the area

I was back down in Manchester on business last summer and being on my todd grabbed a quick curry in Didsbury early doors. On the next table was sat Rio and his bird. I watched the tight arsed barsteward leave a £1 coin as a tip

I agree with you 100% about McKenzie mate but neither him or the Sun are going to admit they were 100% wrong here. The problem is that like most bollocks they print, their stories are rooted in truth but then subjected to their ridiculous spin. IIRC the two main problems they have with the story is that: a: Liverpool fans robbed their own dead. b: Liverpool fans pissed on their own dead. It's all a long time ago now but if my memory serves right there was evidence at that the time dead people were both robbed and pissed on........however.............as usual The Sun put their own bollocks on it. a: Robbing supporters. By the time these poor families got to collect their loved one's possessions they had been through countless hands. Liverpool supporters in the crowd and on the pitch, emergency services & stewards on the pitch, ambulance drivers, hospital staff, mortuary attendants etc etc. Whilst it might be possible to believe that were some scum supporters prepared to do this, it would be impossible to say for certain at what time or place any thieving of personal stuff occured. b: Urinating on supporters. I don't think anybody could think that scousers would deliberately piss on dead people! They might be a lot of things as demonstrated by their shitting into cups and throwing at Man Utd supporters but even I couldn't imagine anybody stooping so low...... but just imagine the scenario..........you are fearing for your life being crushed, others either dead or still alive are being crushed underfoot...... would it not be quite understandable if some people 'lost control' of their bladder in such circumstances? As I say, 2 elements that may have a grain of truth behind them and can't be proven as 'lies' which get the sun off the hook but doesn't really make allowance for their reporting slant on it.

It was a terrible day and most people who remember it well think 'there but the grace of god'. In reality it could have happened to any of us at that time, big crowd for a semi, decrepit ground, total chaos with the emergency services etc etc. I was at Hillsborough more than once for semi finals in the 70s and 80s and it was truly dreadful. The problem is that, at that time, the Liverpool supporters refused to accept that part of the problem was caused by their own supporters. This is still the case, just as they refuse to accept any responsibility for those awful events in Heysel that resulted in 39 Juve fans persihing. Don't get me wrong, most other sets of supporters would have done exactly the same as the scousers that day when they opened the gates of one section prior to kick off. I just don't understand what 'justice' they want? There was a whole litany of fuck ups that day from their own supporters, groundstaff, police, emergency services. All had a role to play in one of the darkest days of English football but in refusing to accept their own supporters were partly to blame they have constantly refused to face up to the truth. There have been other dark days in our game, at Ibrox and Bradford to name just two but nobody seems to want 'justice' for them. All of us realise the horrors of seeing your husband / wife / son / daughter go off to a match and not return but surely this constant campaign can do nothing but bring back the nightmare these people suffered.

Not long been in so didn't see MOTD but he's gone up further in my estimation if that's the case.......AND.............he was talking about the ferkin club he manages. £50 the last time I was there and that was 3 years ago, it was more expensive than Chelski that season, robbin barstewards

Anybody know the people who run this site? It's not the cleverest thing to do to leave all your home, work & mobile numbers on public view on the site and then run an article calling Man United's away supporters a bunch of tossers Their numbers have just been plastered over a Man Utd forum, you might want to warn them it might be a busy night on their phones

I've seen the video of this on youtube. It appears that the Man United players are singing each others 'terrace songs' at them. Now then, at about 1min 28 secs into this, they suddenly break into a chorus of 'na na na Nicky, Nicky Butt' Does this mean that Nicky Butt was at the Man Utd players xmas do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arnFD9e-C8k

Bloody 'ell that wasn't you was it Nah, never have a problem when I'm in there, I know when to keep my mouth shut Apart from that, as my Manc mates never tire of telling me, after living up here since the 70s I've picked up a bit of the accent

No, met a few old mates in town for a few beers and then I watched it in the labour club.

In fairness though Leazes, I think it's difficult for a lot of the younger generation to get a sense of the despair that most Newcastle supporters felt at that time. It's not their fault, they were'nt around at the time and naturally see things with a different perspective to those who were. It's the same when people refer to others as 'post sky football fans' as some kind of insult. It's easy to forget that if you're under 30 you've never known anything different and had no choice in the matter. It was a completely different era, since clubs have floated on the stock exchange etc it's all about attracting new investment. Back in those days it was pot luck if your club had a Westwood / McKeag or a Jack Walker.

I would take a different view, Isegrim. I think the constant harrying of Sibierski & Martins played a significant role in not allowing Man Utd to dominate from deep as they often do.