FCUM

Many years ago, when football club's first started to become plc's, there was a lot of opposition to it from supporters. The cries then were that it's 'sport' not 'business'. How times have changed! I now think that it's the best and fairest way to run football clubs. They are subject to conventional business law and with a plc there is a degree of openness with the financials. If supporters trusts can raise sufficient money to have a major say within that plc then so much the better. Either side of the 'plc' phenomenon we had differing scenarios. Firstly we had the Westwoods, McKeags, Edwards of this world lining their pockets and more recently we've had the Russians & Arabs happy to pour money in without any intention of a return. I'm not convinced either extreme is good for the game. I never thought I'd hear myself say it, but bring back the plc

If it stops anybody else from doing a 'Glazer' and dumping the purchase price onto the club's books, it can only be a good thing. Liverpool's owners then followed the same plan. It's immoral, why should supporters have to stump up the purchase cost for these leeches. If you want to buy a club then you should have to stump up the cash or raise it from personal borrowings. The only slight downfall is that if all clubs can only operate within the parameters of self generated revenue then the same 'big clubs' will always stay at the top. Then again, is that not what is already happening bar Chelski? I think it would certainly be good for North East football. Both Newcastle, and to a lesser extent Sunderland, are capable of standing up with most in self generating revenue.

Seem to remember he ended up at Mansfield or similar after you. He finished up as a security guard at the Colgate Palmolive factory on Trafford Park. How the game's changed! Only 4 of 'em left now.

RIP Sir Bobby Your name will always live on as one of the true legends of the game. There have been some truly great football managers in my lifetime, Sir Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein, Brian Clough, Bob Paisley , Sir Alex Ferguson and you were up there with the best of them. Some may argue there are better football managers in that list and if success is measured purely in trophies, then maybe there are but one thing is certain, there isn't a better person. In a game dominated by greed, deception, and self-importance you stood out like a beacon with humilty, passion and caring. So many years in the game yet never a bad word said against anybody nor a bad word from others about you. That says it all really, there never has been (and I doubt there ever will be) a more perfect example of how to conduct yourself through triumph and adversity. You were the pefect ambassador and role model for all aspiring managers. Thanks for the memories.

I still like to look in here from time to time but it's been a good while since a post inspired me to reply. That's a great post Steve, obviously heartfelt and (as a neutral) I agree with every word. I was shot down on here many months ago when I commented on Ashley and his attempted mingling with the fans, wearring his shirt and downing his pint. I was told it didn't matter but it does... It doesn't portray the right image of a chairman to be respected. The players need a manager (and preferably a chairman) they respect. I don't think Ashley will ever be respected in that way, Joe Kinnear certainly couldn't be and (although I'll invoke the wrath of many) I don't think KK ever would have been. KK might have been a god to the suppoprters but I don't think most players would ever respect him as 'a winner'. Maybe Shearer can become that person (if he can be persuaded to stay). N17, you're right Everton are a big club, but I agree with Stevie, potentially Newcastle are far bigger. You say turnover isn't the be all and end all, maybe not but it's the single most important factor. The game is now ruled by money, I see little hope of anybody breaking the stranglehold of the so called Big 4. The champions league generates enormous income, enabling those clubs to invest more than anybody else to ensure they get into the champions league yet again... to generate that income yet again. It's self-fulfilling! Sadly I think the chances of 'smaller' clubs like Forest, Ipswich etc ever winning the league again are long gone. Maybe if the Italians or Spaniards usurp our domination of the champions league it will level the playing field slightly but I don't even see that happening in the short term.

Interesting that whenever the contracts and big earners are discussed, the list never includes Shay Given. I take it this means that he's some way behind the others in terms of earnings. Does this partly explain his current dissatisfaction? It certainly seems to strengthen the view that more loyal service you give a club, the further down the pecking order you find yourself when it comes to salaries! Maybe keepers don't command the salaries outfield players do, I've no idea, but I'm sure he earns his money a damn sight more than the likes of Smith & Viduka do!

I know exactly what you mean, Gemmill. It's easy for other people to think your disillusionment comes about because you're unhappy with owners or your team's having a rough time etc but I just want to see some fucking passion from people in the game. I think that's why I found the switch to watching non league football a lot easier than some of my compatriots who soon drifted back to Old Trafford. Supporters will put up with a lot that's wrong with professional football if they can only see some desire and passion. I detested Sir Alex Ferguson as a person, detested his greed and moneygrabbing policies, detested the way he always wanted to become bigger than the clubs he managed, detested the way his greed with the Irish mafia opened the door to the yanks. Of course, the success he delivered helps but most of all I was prepared to overlook it because for all his faults he still demonstrated that passion to win at all times. Sadly, due to illness, I've not seen any live football since very early this season but I don't miss the overpaid primadonnas that make up the bulk of our professional game. All I miss really is the 'craic' and camaraderie amongst the real football people, the true supporters. When you've spent all your adult life devoting most of your time to following your team all over the world, it leaves a bloody big hole when you no longer do it. I think that's the real reason people keep turning up every week despite a growing disillusionment.

And I can see the gnashing of teeth here if the bloke you peddled brings success to your rivals

All joking aside, it would be interesting to see how it would work with a big club here We're unlikely to see it though. If memory serves me correct even at the height of the Glazer takeover we could only get to something like £60 mill in pledges and that's from probably the biggest supporter base in this country. It's unlikely we're going to see it with big club here anytime soon.

Well according to a Telegraph article online he's only paid off a tiny fraction of the £100 mill debt he inherited. Paid £134 mill, so offer him £150 mill. 50,000 supporters, 3 grand each, it's all yours. Go for it

Riise & Denilson according to Sporting Life Linky

Word on the street is that Fergie wants a keeper that's not 'European tied' in January. He's (allegedly) losing confidence in VDS and wants to send Ben Foster out on loan for the rest of the season to get more experience. If Ashley (assuming he's still in control) wants to sell who knows....

I seem to remember that Gillespie had his share of 'off-field' problems up here. I know he had gambling problems and wasn't it rumoured that Shearer twatted him in Dublin on a club trip? Was this before or after Keegan left? If after Keegan then it sounds like LM has a point and the rot started after Keegan left.

Cole probably did leave Man Utd too early but funnily enough I respect him a lot more for that. When the horse arrived it was obvious he wasn't going to be a regular any more and preferred to go elsewhere rather than sitting on the bench picking up his wages. Strange also that Cole was only picked up by Fergie as a last minute option when a deal for Collymore fell through (iirc Collymore & Cole shared the same agent). Keegan did agree a deal for Hughes but Sparky knocked it back. Gillespie was an interesting one, of all the great kids in that youth team Keegan picked the one that never really fulfilled his potential (Some would argue Savage didn't but I think he had a better career than Gillespie). Did Keegan just pick the wrong one or was leaving Man Utd part of why he never fulfilled his potential? I can remember the League cup game at St James when Fergie played a lot of the kids with an experienced back 4 behind them. Gillespie was probably pick of the kids that night which obviously influenced Keegan. I often wonder if Gillespie regretted the move, it wasn't long after that Kanchelskis f*cked off and Gillespie would have had the chance to claim a regular starting position.

Maybe somebody could tell the bigoted ***** that we're remembering these people as well.

Agreed I like what the Baggies have done (at least I think it was them) by playing in one-off shirt with a poppy emboidered and then auctioning all the match day shirts for the British Legion. Cracking idea that.

I think thats quite normal tbh. Looks to me a lot of big clubs run 4-4-2 with a more right midfielder then right winger. Bit like Beckham for United I guess. Now I'm not comparing Milner with Beckham, but the tactical side of bringing a more work horse then flair player is similar Seems to go in and out fashion a lot though doesn't it. At one time teams seemed to want full backs that can attack and wide players that defend. In essesnce they sort of merge into one as wing backs. I think the game now is more about pace. Fergie certainly thought that when he offloaded Beckham and brought in the likes of Ronaldo & Nani to replace Giggs. Full backs that can defend first & foremost and wingers that can attack with pace.

I can't help feeling that a move to Chelsea for Owen would be good for all parties providing the funds were available for you to buy a replacement, but I guess the last part is the stumbling block Owen seems to spend as much (if not more) time on the sidelines than he does playing these days. Chelsea can afford that type of player, if Abramovic spunks 100 grand a week on a player that plays 10/12 games a season it's doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things, with his resources he can afford to be paying for 4 or 5 top class strikers if he wants ensuring they always have ready made replacements. I don't think this kind of player is what you need though. You don't have the same resources and if you're shelling out 100 grand a week then you want that striker to be available for the majority of your games. Viduka is injury prone and although Shola tries hard. I doubt anybody thinks he's good enough to match your ambitions. Martins needs a regular partner so surely it would be better to offload Owen (irrespective of his ability) and replace him with a striker on those wages that will be available to play in the main. Would mean a net loss on fees though to replace him with another class striker and I guess Ashley is not going to fork out for that in the present circs.

By 'your lot' I can only presume you're referring to Man Utd, I can assure you FC United don't get mant Irish & tourists. Only one small problem with your logic, Danny. To fill your ground with tourists usually comes as a result of continued success, something your club has constantly failed to achieve. Man Utd can fill their ground with tourists because they are the most succesful club over the last couple of decades. Liverpool can fill their ground with tourists because they had continued success domestically before Man Utd and despite not winning the league they ain't done bad in the years since with Champions League and cup success. Chelsea can get the tourists in because they've had success in recent years. If you want to put Spurs in the same category as those 3 then I'm afraid you are seriously deluded.

Danny, You are falling into the classic false illusion syndrome with this ST waiting list. When clubs have relatively small grounds for their status/support then season ticket demand is high, people know that's the only way they will get to the bigger games. When you increase capacity to the level that most can get a ticket anyway you actually reduce the demand for season tickets. All of a sudden people can pick & choose their games without the need for a ST.

You can argue that other people have done more for your club and I wouldn't disagree. But one thing is clear, Sir Bobby Robson MUST be commemorated somewhere. He is one of the true legends of our game and one of the few 'gentleman' who can be put into that category. To me, there are only 3 places you could really have some kind of commemorative statue: Wembley - To mark his impact on both his country and the game in general. Ipswich - To mark his fantastic acheivements there Newcastle - Amongst his 'own' people and the club he loves. I can see some logic in all 3 options but if I'm being honest I'd much rather see something in Newcastle, irrespective of others 'acheivements' with the club.

Of course he's got major 'form' in this regard which is why I'm curious. Surely even he can't be so blatant though If Berbatov is at Old Trafford without Spurs permission they should both have the book thrown at them but it just seems too blatant even for Fergie to me.

Just out of curiosity who says Spurs haven't given permission for talks Talkshite says Spurs HAVE given permission for the talks although no fee has been agreed between the clubs and everything else I've read says Spurs haven't released any comment on it. So does this have any truth or is it just bullshit

The only opposition player I can ever remember getting a 5 minute standing ovation from the whole of Old Trafford when he was taken off 10 minutes from the end. Pure class.

I do understand where you're coming from Danny but I'm not talking about locals leaving it to the last minute there was a '1 day' window to apply for your tickets online and they went into a ballot with no loyalty given to previous applicants. As I said before though, that's the fault of the club. In fairness, I think the situation at Man Utd is different now with Glazer releasing a lot more season tickets. Prior to Glazer the number of season tickets issued was deliberately suppressed down to just below 20k from a 60k capacity. I'd no problem with this policy, it 'protected' long standing season ticket holders when it came to cup finals etc and still allowed those who couldn't afford season tickets to get to games through the ballot. It did become a bit of a farce though as ST's were handed down through generations or bought on the black market with a change of address. I actually got a 'congratulations' letter from the club on my 100th Birthday despite only being 40 odd as that was the DOB of the original holder