Toonpack

Andy Carrol isn't going to be sold is he skidders ? No way. I hear Man Utd are also a selling club Only difference is Manchester United aren't rummaging around the bargain bin to see what fits. Laughable, are people like Skidmarks. History shows that every single team who has ever won the championships and/or has had consistent high league placings has done it with spending money when necessary on the best players from other smaller acting clubs ie as in Liverpool buying Andy Carroll. The winners take gambles, and the losers sell their best players to the gamblers. We know SOME players come through the ranks, and we know SOME players are found by having good judgements by managers or scouts of up and coming players. But quite why, after over 100 years of football in England, Skidders etc come along and insist they have all been getting it wrong and there has been absolutely no need to do it, and you can put together a team exclusively of bargains found kicking a ball in the lower divisions for peanuts, is unbelievable. He'll come along now and say he hasn't been serious, or something equally as stupid. Deary deary me. What would people rather see at this football club. A club selling its best players and being a yo-yo club with a profit on the balance sheet, or a club competing and maximising potential revenue even to the tune of having some debt and playing in the Champions League in the San Siro and Nou Camp ? No brainer, except to Skidmarks and his ilk. Where'd the money (or debt) come from Leazes ????

Ashley wasn't spending... Shepherd would be spending long-term, Ashley isn't and will not. Like he did the summer we got Bowyer in, that summer which started our decline

Utter Utter shit

Who else are we going to get? I will take Freddy in a heartbeat. Cracking justification Seriously, have a fucking word man! Are you really going to deny that under Shepherd we weren't experiencing good times? How can you possibly see him as a bad chairman? Yes he ran up debt, but any club doing well in the modern day (without a billionaire needs to be in debt). Times change. We had good times under Shepherd primarily because of the appointments of KK and SBR. The absolute abominations we were served up under Dalglish, Gullit, Souness and Roeder proves it was fuck all to do with Shepherd. He'd be a fucking disaster coming back now. Why do you think we could appoint world class managers like SBR? With Ashley, Hughton was as good as it gets and look what happened to him. Seriously, we will never ever attract a good manager under Ashley. Shepherd for all he was, could do that. Moreover, we had Keegan. He fucked off soon after he realised what he was dealing with regards to Ashley. We attracted two decent managers during Shepherd's time at the club. Both who had massive sentimental attachment to the club. All the rest were fucking garbage. Seriously, say Shepherd come in tomorrow. Who are you telling me he'd appoint as manager? I'd love to know. Whoever the administrator would let him Administrator? What the fuck are you going on about? If FFS was in charge the Administrator wouldn't be far behind

Who else are we going to get? I will take Freddy in a heartbeat. Cracking justification Seriously, have a fucking word man! Are you really going to deny that under Shepherd we weren't experiencing good times? How can you possibly see him as a bad chairman? Yes he ran up debt, but any club doing well in the modern day (without a billionaire needs to be in debt). Times change. We had good times under Shepherd primarily because of the appointments of KK and SBR. The absolute abominations we were served up under Dalglish, Gullit, Souness and Roeder proves it was fuck all to do with Shepherd. He'd be a fucking disaster coming back now. Why do you think we could appoint world class managers like SBR? With Ashley, Hughton was as good as it gets and look what happened to him. Seriously, we will never ever attract a good manager under Ashley. Shepherd for all he was, could do that. Moreover, we had Keegan. He fucked off soon after he realised what he was dealing with regards to Ashley. We attracted two decent managers during Shepherd's time at the club. Both who had massive sentimental attachment to the club. All the rest were fucking garbage. Seriously, say Shepherd come in tomorrow. Who are you telling me he'd appoint as manager? I'd love to know. Whoever the administrator would let him

Who else are we going to get? I will take Freddy in a heartbeat. Cracking justification Seriously, have a fucking word man! Are you really going to deny that under Shepherd we weren't experiencing good times? How can you possibly see him as a bad chairman? Yes he ran up debt, but any club doing well in the modern day (without a billionaire needs to be in debt). Times change. We had good times under Shepherd primarily because of the appointments of KK and SBR. The absolute abominations we were served up under Dalglish, Gullit, Souness and Roeder proves it was fuck all to do with Shepherd. He'd be a fucking disaster coming back now. Why do you think we could appoint world class managers like SBR? With Ashley, Hughton was as good as it gets and look what happened to him. Seriously, we will never ever attract a good manager under Ashley. Shepherd for all he was, could do that. Moreover, we had Keegan. He fucked off soon after he realised what he was dealing with regards to Ashley. He fucked off under Shepherd too, mongaloid. Look you Ashley worshipper. It was clearly a different reason and not for being a twat/lacking ambition. Is it Toontastics care in the community day ???

22 minutes It was us that shipped 4 in 26. They were worse than us in that respect Yeeeaahhh we are better than Arsenal . Sort of Head to head results would suggest there's no "sort of" about it

Fucking hell, they mount the greatest comeback in PL history and you still piss and moan and hope we'd lost 7-0. What a fucking prick

You are deluded

Fuck Off - I'd rather stick pins in my bellend

No chance.... It sickens me to say this but i know. Its totally put him in the shop window now. Do what football fans used to do, enjoy the game for what it is, savour the moment and FUCK the big picture

Really

No guarantees, [with this man in charge] post guidelines/rules dictating what a club can spend to a limit [fees & wages] based on club income - particularly as to whether we'll receive a lift back towards the top pack, due to the top spenders being reigned in in accordance to the above mentioned guidelines. Looking at how how the salary cap works in the United States [the NFL], some owners routinely operate well below the cap & profit gauge off of what the governing body equally allocates to each club ie. television revenue. Factor in gate receipts it can be quite a profitable enterprise for some club owners. Although it's an ever running battle, but the free agency market [as to what owners spend on top players when they become available], and how owners perpetually squeeze their wage bill into the cap is a calling card re:ambition, its the true yardstick of a club's ambition over in the States. The antithesis to this being The Bidwells, in Pheonix, who for many years [pre: the new stadium years] were well known for their penny-pinching ways, and for a long time were relatively low spenders in the free agency market, and during such time were known as the joke & most unambitious club in it's league. They really made a mockery of the highly marketable Pacific-Mid West region for a long time. I suspect Ashley will do the same, with smaller clubs [like the Wigans & the Brums etc.... with smaller spending caps/limits] actually trying harder to retain their respective premiership status', in terms of expenditure, as opposed to hoping for mere survival whilst running in theme to a business [or retail/corporate based] plan based around maintaining a skeletal budget [re; 1st team investment] & asset stripping. I dissagree witha fair amount of that, sorry !! As well as the upper cap, there is a mandated minimum spend. Well there was as the current CBA which has has run out, may be different if they get a new deal done. There are also dictated minimum salaries per position for veteran players. The use of the cap comes down solely to how good your General Manager is in being able to retain good marquee players at reasonable salary mixed with young cheaper drafted talent. The Packers for example are almost totally built through the draft and they use the cap to retain their developed blue chip players - when they can, the cap is designed so that a team can't just do a Man City and buy all the best, it's designed to ensure parity, all teams have an equal chance. Use of the cap is nothing to do with "ambition" it's all about parity. As an oposite to the Packers look at Minnesota, they use several very hign cost free agents (ambitious!!) mixed with a supporting cast of cheapo's - the were last in the Division, the Packers are in the Superbowl YAY !!!!!!!!! Re: the Packers, and your assertion they have built teams solely through the draft. Back in the 90's they paid big money [back then] to bring Reggie White over from Philadelphia, it was a big move back in the day. They built a defense around the bloke, a defense that dominated their division. Ambition [through the use of the salary cap, and being able to stay within the upper limit] is measured by supplimenting a club's developing stars [acquired through the draft] with experienced stars purchased via the free agent market, during a club's so-called premiership window ie. as the youngsters near their peak abilities as a group, and as veterans retire. Many examples are too numerous to list, think Randy Moss to the Patriots to aid Brady in the passing game - it nearly delivered a perfect season. Rules were a lot different in the 90's when Reggie signed and he put the D over the edge,but they already had some great players before Reggie came (Dotson, Butler etc). In truth the guy who won us the superbowl was probably Desmond Howard, a bargain basement street free agent, flashed for just that season then disappeared again. Moss wasn't a free agent as such, he was traded for (3rd or 4th round pick, can't exactly recall). Teams lose BIG stars all the time because they can't afford or choose not to re-sign them because of the cap implications, Aaron Kampman last year for us for example. The top Marquee players who get to free agency rarely go to a major contender, Kampman went to Carolina !!! To use Carrol as an analogy, he was an RFA and we chose not to match what someone else was offering, so he went. The Cap is a better illustration of what FCB is doing than of the opposite IMO.

"Should" being the key word !!! Ideally fans will actually start to count again (they're currently an irrelevance IMO) as your spending ability will be governed by turnover, I'll believe it when I see it though.

It comes in in 2012/13 Clubs must break even and not make persistent losses (whatever that means) Owner subsidy is no longer allowed. There'll be ways round it though, for example with Man City some Arabian company - totally unconnected to the owner - could just sponsor them for a year for a stupid amount to allow them to plough merrily on, as that would count against their turnover.

No guarantees, [with this man in charge] post guidelines/rules dictating what a club can spend to a limit [fees & wages] based on club income - particularly as to whether we'll receive a lift back towards the top pack, due to the top spenders being reigned in in accordance to the above mentioned guidelines. Looking at how how the salary cap works in the United States [the NFL], some owners routinely operate well below the cap & profit gauge off of what the governing body equally allocates to each club ie. television revenue. Factor in gate receipts it can be quite a profitable enterprise for some club owners. Although it's an ever running battle, but the free agency market [as to what owners spend on top players when they become available], and how owners perpetually squeeze their wage bill into the cap is a calling card re:ambition, its the true yardstick of a club's ambition over in the States. The antithesis to this being The Bidwells, in Pheonix, who for many years [pre: the new stadium years] were well known for their penny-pinching ways, and for a long time were relatively low spenders in the free agency market, and during such time were known as the joke & most unambitious club in it's league. They really made a mockery of the highly marketable Pacific-Mid West region for a long time. I suspect Ashley will do the same, with smaller clubs [like the Wigans & the Brums etc.... with smaller spending caps/limits] actually trying harder to retain their respective premiership status', in terms of expenditure, as opposed to hoping for mere survival whilst running in theme to a business [or retail/corporate based] plan based around maintaining a skeletal budget [re; 1st team investment] & asset stripping. I dissagree witha fair amount of that, sorry !! As well as the upper cap, there is a mandated minimum spend. Well there was as the current CBA which has has run out, may be different if they get a new deal done. There are also dictated minimum salaries per position for veteran players. The use of the cap comes down solely to how good your General Manager is in being able to retain good marquee players at reasonable salary mixed with young cheaper drafted talent. The Packers for example are almost totally built through the draft and they use the cap to retain their developed blue chip players - when they can, the cap is designed so that a team can't just do a Man City and buy all the best, it's designed to ensure parity, all teams have an equal chance. Use of the cap is nothing to do with "ambition" it's all about parity. As an oposite to the Packers look at Minnesota, they use several very hign cost free agents (ambitious!!) mixed with a supporting cast of cheapo's - the were last in the Division, the Packers are in the Superbowl YAY !!!!!!!!!

Excellent post, sums it up perfectly. Shepherd never put anything in, but took loads out.

In 5 league games since Carrols self inflicted injury, we've scored 8 goals and conceded 3, leave the midfield well alone IMO, coincidently the only games we haven't won (2 draws and the Fulham loss) are when Tiote was suspended.

Paul Cannell that was a good first post One of my favourite ever commentary moments from ye olde days when Cannell was a sub. On Shoot (highlight programme on a Sunday) Wolstenhome (I think it was) famously said at one point "And the Newcastle fans are shouting For Cannell" - you've got to say it to get it

He's right though. I mean he's surely deserving of a dozen more chances, but the jury isn't so much out as on their way back through the door with angry looks on their faces. Just goes to show ANYONE can get it wrong. There's a verdict in Scottish law of "Not Proven" (not guilty but not connvincingly innocent either - as in there's doubt) Lets not forget Carroll is out injured from getting pissed up (again) we still don't know which way that pendulum will swing.

we are now nearly 4 years into Mike Ashleys "plan". You couldn't make it up. If Shepherd had stayed, where do you think we'd be ??? you mean the Halls and Shepherd ? Do you know where we were when they took over the club ? When do you think someone will come in and match their european and Champions League qualifications, and growth of the club, as you appear to think they were so useless ? know exactly where we were, I'm nearly as old as you for fucks sake. They did a great job initially but when SJh stepped back the bubble burst, we had our time and we blew it. We're paying for it now and it's going to be a slow climb back you mean you are aware we nearly went into administration ? We would not have been relegated under the Halls and Shepherd, and so it would not have been such a "slow climb back". We will not "climb back" under Mike Ashley, because he does not have the ambition nor does he want to show the ambition. So your idealistic view is futile. It will not happen because he isn't prepared to take the risks, instead he is presiding over a club with revenues and gates tumbling, which only means competing at an even lower level. Liverpool have the right idea by the way, they proved it yesterday, they will get into the Champions League long before any club owned by Mike Ashley. Jul 2006 Garra Dembele FWD Auxerre On Trial Jul 2006 Michael Morrison DEF Cambridge United On Trial Jul 2006 David Templeton FWD Stenhousemuir On Trial Jul 2006 Damien Duff MID Chelsea £5m Aug 2006 Paul Huntington DEF Plymouth Trial ended Aug 2006 Obafemi Martins FWD Inter Milan £10.14m Aug 2006 Wael Gomaa DEF Al-Ahly On Trial Aug 2006 Giuseppe Rossi FWD Manchester United 4 month loan Aug 2006 Antoine Sibierski MID Manchester City fee tbc Sep 2006 Olivier Bernard DEF Rangers free Sep 2006 Pavel Srnicek DEF Unattached 4 month deal Dec 2006 Pierre Boya FWD Partizan Belgrade Trial Jan 2007 Oguchi Onyewu DEF Standard Liege 4 month loan Feb 2007 Lee Kerr FWD Whitley Bay Trial Apr 2007 Erol Bulut DEF Olympiakos Trial Shepherd/Hall's last two transfer windows. Full of trial's, loans and even Duff is 'basement bargain' in line with your comments about Ben Arfa. We sold £7.5m worth of players that summer too, as well as Shearer retiring. We were definitely heading towards the top four like a freight train like, weren't we Leazes That's Leazes problem, he thinks we were in the champions league when we Freddy left !!! BTW, shame we hadn't held onto Templeton, canny little player now

For me its now all about the summer. It we dont spend a lot then we finally will have no doubt about his intentions. To be fair there's only you and Skidmark that don't see the guy for what he is. I disagree. I think there was quite a few on this forum who were starting to believe that with the likes of Tiote and Ben Arfa, getting contracts for the likes of Carrol sorted out, that we were on the up and heading in the right direction. The progress since relegation would never satisfy the likes of Leazes , but I think a lot of Ashley haters still had some belief creaping in that the club was heading in the right direction. Carrols sale has stalled that belief for me, which is why I say the summer spending bill will be make or break. Like I have said, almost since he had hardly got his foot through the door, his sole aim was to stay in the premiership, while spending as little as possible and pocketing as much as possible, through selling our best players. He bought into the myth that we "always had 50,000 crowds" like lots of other fuckwits - not even just southerners because lots of NUFC fans attracted to the club by the previous regime also gullibly bought into it - and has now had a shock and will get an even bigger one when season ticket renewal time comes, unless he has found a buyer. He bought people pints in the Bigg Market, a cringeworthy attempt at a PR exercise to buy popularity when he knew all along he had no ambition on the pitch, along with his other stunts which capitalised on the misguided unpopularity of the previous owners, among those who didn't understand what they had done for the club during their time in charge, and had became used to the club showing ambition, thinking it was an automatic thing. Ambition is a choice, which was pointed out many times, nobody has to do it. He chose not to show it, and many many other potential owners out there could do exactly the same thing. That is all there is too it. The wrong bloke, a terrible terrible owner, all I have done is stuck to my guns, which was easy because I knew that I was right. People wanting to spend as little as possible as soon as they get their foot in the door don't sanction the spending money Big Sam was given pretty much straight away. You fail to see the flaws in you argument and go on claiming that you were always right. What I'm trying to say Leazes is that you're basically a tosser. Really ? Shame I am right then. Successful clubs spend big money, because they need to buy the best players, like it or not. Fuck me, this is like teaching someone to suck eggs. But how does that related to what youve just quoted? Time for you to ties yourself in knots again and ignore all points made to you. You still haven't shown me when I suggested we'd be in the Champions League under Ashley. Are you going to respond to these simplest of questions/points or are you going to carry on making yourself look like the thickest of thick twats? Because when you are unable to provide answers to things people ask you, and keep on saying the same fucking thing, you just look like a fucking nutjob mate, and that's a serious criticism, I'm not just taaking the piss here. what progress ? you mean talking 4 steps backwards and 2 steps forwards again ? We are miles away from the champions league and european qualifications, and expectations accordingly, we got used to. You're fucking dumb. This week has still taught you nothing at all. The club is not geared to success or in terms of consistently attaining high league positions and attempt to play regularly in europe ? Understand ? I don't even know what you're on about here. Are you responding to what I wrote or not? Go take your fucking pills I've had enough or trying to decipher you. go back 2 days, and where the events of yesterday were predicted by another poster. Your reply was "fuck off you dribbling wreck" Daft lad. One day you will learn. 35 million you silly old cunt, NO CUNT that hasn't been in the Champions League for this long has EVER turned down a bid of that size. Prove otherwise and you have a point. Valencia took 34 mill for David Villa, what does that say about 35 mill for Carroll

we are now nearly 4 years into Mike Ashleys "plan". You couldn't make it up. If Shepherd had stayed, where do you think we'd be ??? you mean the Halls and Shepherd ? Do you know where we were when they took over the club ? When do you think someone will come in and match their european and Champions League qualifications, and growth of the club, as you appear to think they were so useless ? know exactly where we were, I'm nearly as old as you for fucks sake. They did a great job initially but when SJh stepped back the bubble burst, we had our time and we blew it. We're paying for it now and it's going to be a slow climb back

Agree with this. Got it in one. Agree with all points. When's he scored 20 goals ??? It's £35 million guaranteed against potentially a 20 goal a season striker who wanted to go.

It'll be 3 years, he can buy himself out for £9.75 million then under that former Hearts player rule.