aimaad22

Aye I give Gloom a lot of credit here. It would have been very easy to lash out at the discourse considering what he has at stake.

Yeah I agree with Renton and Rayvin on this one. I think from the off we all knew nobody's really going to change their minds based on what will be said here. Although of course it's always good, and often illumniating, to hear the other point of view. In part we're venting I suppose and in part trying a tiny bit to raise awareness which may not count for shite in the end but I feel it's better than completely burying your head in the sand.

Mate, I don't know what to say to that, we've been over this. I appreciate that it's a difficult time for you. If any criticism of Israel's occupation and war crimes on generations of an occupied people is going to be branded 'hamas apologists' or 'anti-Semitism' as it sometimes is in the media, then not only will it distract from when those things actually do happen, but we will never make meaningful strides towards resolution. It is at the very heart of the trouble in the region. We're fighting symptoms and ignoring deeper lying causes. Biden, Starmer and other political leaders can pretend otherwise all they like; history will remember that the world cheered on apartheid and genocide. I'm sorry if its troubling hearing that again, I'll try not to repeat it as after a point it'll feel like we're going in circles anyway, I just feel it is too often overlooked in some mainstream media and most certainly in the way many countries have responded. If things were turned the other way around, no chance we would be reacting the same way. That's the horrible depressing truth.

If that is the logic, Hamas can say Israel could have saved hundreds of its own citizens by ending the brutal and illegal occupation? Do you begin to see the problem with this line of reasoning?

What would you call what they've been subjected to over the last many decades?

Reported

That gave me the heebee beegees

Also is it just me or has Wiky managed to post about 275 tweets together?

We didn't have a Dan Burn thread before now?

Phew, hopefully it's just that and nothing football related. Mad dog's first session with Tonali back:

What Hamas was trying to achieve last week I honestly don't know, can't get my head around it. Desperation, anger, pure madness, attempt to bring the issue to the fore? It's lunacy whatever it was. A vastly different situation to this of course but I go back to my own experiences with terrorism growing up in a post 9/11 Pakistan battling with insurgents who claimed to be resisting the US invasion into Afghanistan. Over 50,000 civilians dead for a war we weren't even directly fighting. Vast majority of people in the country opposed the US invasion and the logistics/intelligence support from Pakistan so no one could understand why these insurgents were exacting 'revenge' from the average civilian, killing kids? Muslims killing muslims? (not exactly a holy war eh). Was the violence helping to keep the matter relevant in national politics? Were they just angry and/or mad? Pushing their agenda to flare violence and recruit more people? I don't know the answers. Its just mad right? Wrong on so many levels. Yet this has been the common response to occupation/invasion throughout history. This is why the mindless statements of support for Israel's brutalities from many developed nations are so important. There is no hope if we cannot exert some level of fairness into our reactions. It really comes down to the age old adage for me, no justice no peace.

I'm sorry, it's not savagery for Israel to murder thousands of civilians in light of what Hamas did, but savagery for Hamas to do what they did in light of what Palestine has been subjected to over decades? Tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians and children slaughtered? Occupation, blockade, apartheid, violation of international law and countless war crimes? I'm curious at what point does Israel become 'savage'? Whatever the history, what Hamas did is inexcusable and indefensible. I apply the same standards to Israel and put them in the same bracket. Possibly worse actually if you start thinking about it because they have a well armed military to defend themselves, Gaza does not. I was trying to not get into that gutter game. Children murdering terrorists are children murdering terrorists. I dont care what they call themselves, what they look like or what language they speak. Fucking terrorists the lot of them.

Oh dear, is that a credible story? It's not widely reported yet. Craig Hope will have a field day nonetheless.

Not that anybody else has covered themselves in glory to be honest including their Middle Eastern neighbours. Take the Yemen civil war also, I dont recall any regional or Islamic power call out the atrocities there or try and make a real effort to put an end to the killing and mass starvation fuelled by the proxy war. It was hardly in the news actually.

Ok so I've deleted my post again Purely because I've zero intention of scoring points here. Feel shitty enough seeing people do that on Twitter and the like so it's the last thing we need here. I was trying to say that we've got very little moral high ground left anywhere. Not that that's new. Trying to make sense of a situation where there's none really. Those that said 'humanity is fucked' and promplty left the discussion got it spot on I think

Tbf there's no real way of knowing what the gulf in quality between the two leagues is as well, since the three teams that beat them to promotion last season are doing so well in the prem now, every reason to think this Neil bloke can be the next Declan Rice.

Its not about belief mate. This is a decades old problem right and I think its always important to think of this matter with that in mind and not only what's happened recently. If you think my opinion is based on that one BBC interview then let me clarify that it's not. Wont drag the argument (international break or not) as you said you dont want to get into it which is 100% understandable. The media coverage thing irks me only because I think it's important in fuelling the feeling of injustice and hatred the likes of Hamas will use to push people over the edge. One of the interesting things I found about having lived/worked in a number of very different countries/cultures is having your pre-conceived notions challenged and discovering that you indeed grew up with baises. I suppose most do. I do try and make an effort in questioning if my own beliefs are biases.

The 'bias' is clear as day. Fair enough though. It was food for thought, nooone really changes their opinions based on internet posts.

I'll just leave this here then....

Completely agree. Man City preferably. Perhaps Arsenal otherwise. Want to see Liverpool and Man Utd dwindle down to nothingness the insufferable pricks. Ten Hag is making good progress on that. Shame Liverpool signed a couple of decent players and look to be a force again.

Freaking international break..... I enjoyed Bob's burgers more than Simpsons etc, its' got far less outlandish stuff in it I think. H Jon Benjamin is class

What have we done as outsiders? I said this years before when we've discussed this 'conflict' here, that what I find unique about this situation is that the world has funded, armed and rallied behind a brutal, invading, occupying force. Contrast that to most other recent wars. Any idiot versed in basic history can tell you that a desperate, extreme and terrible insurgency is a likely outcome in this scenario, so one can only assume the world in general is okay with this result because we aren't doing anything to try and change it. Just repeating more of the same mistakes. Desperately hope Gloomy's family and all innocent folk out there can stay safe from this horrible, depressing situation. For the ones in Israel at least there is some hope. What to say for the 3 million, half of them kids, stuck in a 100km strip of land with no where to escape to and now cut off from power and food, I just don't know.

Has he got a long range shot on him? Can remember one or two decent strikes for Milan but not many off the top of my head. I think that's why one of the areas the midfield can mix it up a little. Bruno, Longy and Anderson are too predictable in that respect as they seem very reluctant to take a shot on from outside the box even when there seems to be space. Bruno was doing it in his first season, he's got it in him but its been switched off for some reason.

You get the feeling that he's got it in him though. I've no idea why some of Twitter seems to be slagging him off because I thought he was our best player in that poor first half. As Fish said some of his forward looking passes in the second half didnt come off, but you could see the ideas are there. Some of the link up one touch play was lovely too, I think he's going to be class.

Probably looked his best this season running with the ball. He's got the ability to score pretty much any type of goal so he's going to be right up there in the scoring charts as long as he gets some sort of delivery. Gordon and Willock with their running will create a lot more space for him too.