aimaad22

And it fits right in with the overall club culture

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All this fuss over Assad ffs

Freaking Palace

Here's a little study: "What is the driving force behind jihadist terrorism? – A scientific perspective on the causes/circumstances of joining the scene" https://life.eui.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/OLIVIER-ROY-what-is-a-radical-islamist.pdf Also, I keep saying this. The reason for mentioning other conflicts and western involvement in the middle east etc is not just because there has to be some direct link to Paris, but more the general attitude of some including a lot of the mainstream media in being so nonchalant about tens of thousands of civilian deaths in these cases. The hypocrisy and double standards are staggering in general.

Why is McClaren talking about dropping Mitrovic? He wasn't great but what service did he have exactly?

Im still struggling to understand why the players are so half arsed. Is McClaren a shite motivator or is there credibility in the idea that some of the older players are having an effect on the dressing room. We've got a fair bit of deadwood that have been stuck here for a while. Colo, Tiote, Gouffran, Cisse etc. The dressing room needs a nucleus. One with a bit of energy and premiership experience.

Here's the perfect response. More support for the most undemocratic, tyrant, extremist regime on the planet. More evidence of fine Western values. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/francois-hollandes-war-with-isis-wont-stand-in-the-way-of-frances-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia-a6738546.html

I said: "If France tomorrow killed all Syrians but one and the remaining one Syrian killed one innocent Frenchman in revenge, I'd still call it wrong because that one person was innocent." So umm, no, I've not been justifying anything. You clearly havent even been listening. This uncivilized voice is apparently unable to reach the fair western and rational mind at its mighty heights! The other conflicts were mentioned not in light of Paris but because of your rather disturbing writing off of 'less civilized' human life and the insistence that they're all mistakes. Makes your ramblings about media propaganda all the more amusing. You're as influenced by Murdoch as anyone Ive met. What I find disgusting is your justification of thousands of dead innocents in the name of collateral damage. I'd like to see you say that to the face of one of the grieving families. We can continue to disagree about everything else but at the very least I thought you would have the decency to not make up this assumption that Im in some way trying to justify the Paris attacks or the morality of those behind them. Its pathetic to be honest. If this is what you've derived from what I've been saying then I guess I ought not be surprised by anything else you've been saying.

I dont think anyone's really debating the morality of the people behind the Paris attacks. You're naive to think if there's no connection with foreign policy though. And of course the fact there is is still morally wrong. Noone is debating that either. If France tomorrow killed all Syrians but one and the remaining one Syrian killed one innocent Frenchman in revenge, I'd still call it wrong because that one person was innocent. Which is why your writing off of so many innocent people in the conflicts mentioned is so fascinating to me, especially in the light of this moral high ground. You think its morally corrupt to avenge foreign policy grievances by killing innocents (which I agree with), yet in turn reacting to such actions by going on and killing more innocents (thousands and thousands more as history has shown) is something you write off as mistakes or war crimes. Its contradictory and hypocritical to me. Then again I do not possess a fair western and rational mind! Yeah you keep pointing at intent. Bombing some place which has been designated as a hospital and for which you've expressly been provided coordinates is as intent as its gets. Its no accident in a war zone ffs. (not that those are justifiable either but anyway). If you dont get that then lets just disagree.

Could have easily been 8.

Everytime you watch nufc and think you hate football all you have to do is watch the little guy play for 5 minutes

Iniesta man

Aye Madrid lucky to be 0-2 down as well.

But hey at least we're playing well. The results will come with time

Embarrassing stuff. Zero response to going down. They're not even trying. Pathetic.

Come on mate, if you watched the Bournemouth game you would think we wouldnt win another game ever

Absolutely dreadful stuff. Deserved to be down. Carrying off right where we left before the international break.

The fact US forces already had coordinates of the hospital, and that they continued the attack after being reminded of exactly what they were bombing does not evidence intent? Paris and Syria have already been debated to death in the other thread, I dont want to go over all that again. I'll just have to disagree with your justification of the sort of responses we saw in Afghanistan and Iraq. Its the same reasoning the likes of Al Qaeda and Taliban present to recruits. You're responsible for who you kill, simple as that.

Agree with the first para. Which is why the MSF and UN hospital strikes were mentioned as examples. The second is very scary, and in my opinion, just as bad as the justification you referred to in the first line.

Chez doesnt consider them indiscriminate killing. I do.

I think you've already given me a goodly glimpse of the refinement of these moral schools thanks. My whole argument has been based on trying to get into the head of the other side ,the people of Gaza or Syria for instance, because some people including the mainstream media will never bother since they're not Americans or Europeans. Or will write them off as inconvenient collateral damage much as you have. Its not about right or wrong, good or bad. Its about thinking of everyone in the same way. I dont know where that fits in in your alternative moral schools and I dont care really if this is what is called refined morality.

Yeah, Im trying to say that hell that was unleashed in Paris is a daily reality for a lot of people in many countries. And we're responsible for a lot of it. It scares me. How barbaric of me. Iraq? Syria? Palestine? Doesnt matter. Take your pick of any of the conflicts since WWII basically. Or are they irrelevant here because they're in the past? Trying to make sense of everything you've said. How far off am I?

Whats your view on the MSF case Chez? Or the bombing of the UN hospital last year in Gaza which had the UNHCR (iirc) chief in tears? Coordinates were already available with forces, and once the attacks began the authorities were again informed, yet the onslaught continued on for hours?

Ok so let me get this straight: Leveling a country to get at 0.1% of the population is not so bad because the idea was to get at 0.1% of the population and not kill hundreds of thousands in the process. The fact that thousands do die and we knew they were going to die is besides the point because its the 0.1% that were the official target. The others are an inconvenience which we are very sorry about but its not evil or terrorism because it doesnt affect my weekend shopping trip.