Renton

So Gemmill, you admit we are simply not good enough to compete in Europe this year, presumably you know the implications of this in terms of lost revenue and status. Yet you still support the man largely responsible for putting us in this downward spiral, and would give him a full further year regardless how bad things get. Interesting.

Agree completely, but what was a real negative for me was the fact that once again we were in a winning position, only to blow it through suicidal defending. A lot of people seem to think our defence is OK, but the truth is it's not. Boumsong is overated in my opinion, and it shows against big teams. Our full backs are a joke. The only positive is Bramble and Taylor, but they are not enough. So if we have a poor defence, we will concede goals, lots of them. And at the moment I just can't see where our goals are going to come from. We had better hope the promoted teams are as bad as people say they are, because they will have one thing we lack - morale. I really am beginning to fear the worst for this season, we need to replace Souness NOW.

Well yes, that's a good point. Probably Shearer I imagine, which might be a disaster. Still, I'd rather take a chance on a disaster waiting to happen than one that already is. 6940[/snapback] I wonder if he'd take it though, he might feel it was the wrong time to take over. Also, it's not as though Shepherd has sacked previous managers without a proper contigency plan is it? 6942[/snapback] Yeah, I think you're right and he might not take it. Shepherd is repeating past mistakes by not acting in the summer, or at least taking a huge risk in not doing so. Maybe somebody like Dowie would be a good choice, but could he control the egos? It's all very worrying, it has to be said.

Well yes, that's a good point. Probably Shearer I imagine, which might be a disaster. Still, I'd rather take a chance on a disaster waiting to happen than one that already is.

How's that? I've heard a few people compare it to the Gullit situation a few years back and I was just wondering what peoples thoughts were so obviously I must want NUFC lose. Hopefully you'll not take this thread as seriously as the comment I made prior to the Coventry match. 6813[/snapback] Well no, but it concerns me that someone who considers them a true fan can even contemplate us losing a match for an ulterior motive such as the removal of the manager. Even the most ardant Souness hater surely would still want us to beat the Mackems (if they consider themselves a true fan)? 6864[/snapback] The problem is this is a hypothetical question, the reality is always much more complicated. I was there at Gullit's last match, getting soaked to the skin in the heaviest rain I have ever seen at a football match (it was actually more like water polo). While I wanted the quick fix of us winning the match, I knew deep down that this would not benefit the club and was relieved when we lost. Had we won, we would likely have lost Lee and Shearer, and in my opinion Gullit would have got us relegated, the stakes were really that high, remember the incredible damage Gullit was doing to the club at the time and our horrendous start. And I bet the mackem defeat was soon forgotten when we trounced Sheffield Wednesday 8-0 at the next home match, with Bobby Robson in charge. I can see a similar scenario happening with Souness, although personally I don't think he will last that long. If that happened, it would be a horrible situation, and although I would not be willing Sunderland to win, I would not be upset if we lost if Souness was sacked afterwards. Does that make sense, and does that make me a lesser fan?

Cheers Isegrim, nice to be remembered! However, this is a sad day as I am now half way through my allotted three score and ten. Celebrating tomorrow at the match hopefully. :lol:

Maybe not, but you can guarantee he will be first on the team sheet for England, no matter where he plays, even if he stayed at Madrid. This world cup talk is a bit of a nonsense in my opinion.

No we won't. Man United won't sell Smith. They've already decided that he's going to play a holding role in midfield to replace Keane. 6465[/snapback] More likely to be Saha. Buying back a player we once had on our books for an extortionate amount of money seems about right for this club.

Viduka = Flo Oh shit.

Basically we have completely ballsed up and are going to be held to ransom by every other club, even over a fat, unfit, past it, no hoper like Viduka. Nice going Freddie.

There was a guy on talk sport yesterday saying what a wonderful job Souness had done so far, how he was the best thing that had happened to our club in years. Where do cretins like this come from? How can even the most aredent Souness admirer claim he has done a wonderful job so far? Expectations have been lowered so much that premiership survival will now be regarded as a success. Get used to years of mind-numbingly dull games like we witnessed last week. Incredibly, some posters on here (or maybe TC) thought that was a fantastic performance, despite us virtually not having an attacking move over the 90 minutes. Apperently this is acceptable to some, even fantastic. To be honest, I think there are very frightening parrallels between what's happening to us and the mackems two years ago. No doubt that comment will cause the Souness "more timers" to arrogantly guffaw with laughter, but the similarities are there for all to see. And consider this: if one or two of the promoted sides find their feet quickly then the pressure will be on from the start. Do we have the morale for a relegation fight? Where are our goals going to come from? Is our defence improved sufficiently - last year it was the worst it ever has been since we were promoted? Gloomy times ahead indeed.

You can afford to waste a £35 ticket, but not afford to go?

Interesting. I was aware that he was a heavy drinker (I'm talking around Lanchester at the weekends, over 10 years ago), but had heard he had given up completely. I can see why N-O was not keen to have that sort of accusation floating around though, and I'm not sure of the relevance. You don't have to be a drunk to talk complete bollocks, although it helps.

I think thats the point though, I can post something that makes sense but based on the version of events I choose to believe. There are only a handful of people that know the full truth and they are all police. However, Im more willing to believe the official version for a number of reasons. 1. Numerous witnesses at the time said he was wearing a big heavy coat, I remember hearing an interview with a bloke who was on the train which was made literally minutes after the event, no time for him to be briefed or 'got at' just the words of a very shaken man. 2. I've been in too many tube stations to know that you cant get in without either a ticket or jumping the barrier. Are you saying that he went and bought a ticket while being chased? 3. Again, witnesses say they heard the police shouting, as said before, three men running with guns and not identifying themselves as police would be seen, there'd be panic and people would have been shouting this out afterwards to whoever would listen. 4. And the most important point...why? what reason would the police have to be trigger happy? they know what happens whenever they shoot someone, theres always an inquiry, always the truth comes out. At some stage the truth will come out, unfortunately even when it does and all the facts show they did everything right then people will just make out that they've fiddled it, glossed over the facts and are spinning the truth. Officialdom never wins in these cases, people will always choose to believe that the world is big brother and police are there to harass us and do their own thing. Thats not aimed at you personally Renton just a generalisation of certain elements of this country. 4647[/snapback] But what you've given there is just more speculation, there will be an independent investigation which will find the truth hopefully. Eye witness accounts are notoriously innacurate. I lost a wing mirror to a twat hit and run driver on Sunday driving back from the lake district, and although my wife was with me and we obviously both saw it, we couldn't agree on the make or even colour of the offending car! Some say the victim had a heavy coat on, others say it was denim jacket, others say he had wires coming out his pockets. They can't all be right, but I do ask myself why would he be wearing a heavy coat in London in summer? Even being from Sau Paolo, he'd have been uncomfortably hot. It has also been reported he had a travel pass, which he used to get through barriers legitimately. The police were plain clothed, and many witnesses say they did not announce they were police. Who's to see how anyone would react if a bunch of men with guns started running after them? Panic does strange things. As for your last point, all I'm saying is that it may have been an avoidable mistake, this is what the enquiry will find. Mistakes happen, as exemplified by the chair leg incident Rob W keeps reminding us off. I'm certainly not suggesting it was a deliberate murder, but on the other hand justice to the deceased must be done, and must be seen to be done, otherwise the terrorists have won; they have changed us into a police state where the police can shoot anyone of us without fear of consequence. On a broader note this is what scares me most, we can't let a few nutters change our values or the way we live, but that is what's happening already. We need a measured response to this problem, and it is vital we don't let the terrorists take from us what is most important, our freedom. OK, that was a bit Braveheart!

Do you live in the dome or the lighthouse Sned?

Regarding that last sentence, we won't know all the facts until there has been a proper independent investigation, you are selectively citing one version of events, one that makes the police's actions look reasonable. There are various other contradictory "facts" at the minute, such as people saying he was wearing a denim jacket (not padded), that he didn't jump over any barriers, and that the police never identified themselves. It's perfectly possible the police were trigger happy in this incident, we'll have to wait and see which could take months or even years.

9 individuals agrees with it, 5 of these strongly. This poll is no where near well enough powered to draw sweeping extrapolations like that, there is a real chance the survey is unrepresentative. It wouldn't surprise me if 9 people in it couldn't even read or write to be honest. Repeat it with 10.000 people and you might get your answer. Incidentally, if they surveyed the white population about shooting all muslims or something, what do you think the positive response rate would be? Judging from internet forums, pretty high I would imagine.

I'm not a fan of Souness in particular but I have to agree with what you say. 3947[/snapback] In a way I agree too, Souness is a shit manager but you can hardly blame him for taking the job, especially when he was about to be sacked at Blackburn. Mind you, I do also think that Souness could turn the Brazilian national side into relegation fodder. Shepherd really should have three jobs; appoint the right man, support him financially and shut the fuck up. Unfortunately he seems increasingly incapable of doing any of these with any competency whatsoever. Unfortunately Shepherd is unaccoutable to anyone and there is no mechanism to get rid of him. This is why I'm permanently depressed about the state of our club.

I'm going, I was very surprised to get tickets for our last ever match (probably) at Highbury, given that I never have got them before. The people at the box office said it was undersubscibed, so tickets should go on general sale. I was going to go by coach but given the ridiculous starting time (4 am I think), I'm going by plane instead (cheaper than the train, even with BA), staying over one night. Should be good except the match itself, which could well turn into a nightmare. But you never know.....

You just click on the quote button below the post rather than above it. 3920[/snapback] Cheers, that makes sense now.

Damn, going to take a while to get used to all this new fangled functionality. Any tutorials anywhere?

I have you know I was invited, twice!

You missed out that he said that qualification for the UEFA cup was vital, and then went on to say that we had reached the semifinals in the previous two years. The chief Newcastle journalist of the Evening Chronicle doesn't even know how far we got in the UEFA cup last year.