Renton

I don't know how to take you.... Your first point is interesting, but essentially wrong I think. Of course, a few hundred years ago people got many things totally wrong (e.g. sun orbitting the earth). However, now it is the 21st century, science has become very advanced, and things are almost never proven to be fundamentally flawed. Evolution does exist, anyone who has studied it knows it is almost an irrefutable truth. The devil is in the detail, such as the exact mechanims, but essentially we know we have evolved from more "primitive" life forms. 500 years is not going to change that.

We all need to read up on a lot of things. It wasn't a dig, I could answer your questions in a very long post but I think one authoritative source on the subject would clear a lot of things up for you. 54824[/snapback] Well, that's the problem with message boards. Far too many people speaking total cobblers (myself included)! Especially Alex.

Although it does cause a lot of problems in the world and has in the past, it's also true that religion was often just an excuse. If you take the example of the rise of Protestantism in what is now Germany, it was more a case of the heads of state wanting political indepedence from the Holy Roman Emperor than believing Catholicism was flawed. 54817[/snapback] Yes, but who does have the better chicken casserole? 54818[/snapback] Delia 54822[/snapback] Gordon's the man though. He would kick all the others' ass. Yo!

I would agree Jesus wasn't a Christian, it's hard to be a follower of one's self after all. I think he was probably Jewish though 54820[/snapback] Forgive my ignorance, but wasn't the religion of islam formed in 700 AD or thereabouts?

And there in lies the problem. And why I despise the fundamentalists on all sides - especially the muslim, jewish and christian zealots who are currently fucking up the world. 54806[/snapback] And the Buddhist's in Sri Lanka, wouldn't want any of the many middle class new recruits who buy into the idea that Buddhism has never started any trouble be mis-informed on that one. 54810[/snapback] Somehow I feel more threatened by fundamental christians and muslims than buddhists at the moment, but I take your point.

You make some interesting points. The fact that all socieities have a belief in God does not in any way prove that God exists. We have evolved to a social being whose survival depends on mutual co-operation. God is a man-made concept to get people to tow the line - look at the religious rules like don't eat pork - these were all practical advice at the time they were written (although interestingly not all apply now). Also factor in human's terrible fear of death and its not hard to see how the concept of God and heaven arose. I think part of the problem is that human beings have a perception that many unlikely co-incidences would have been necessary to form the world we live in. Not at all, in fact there is no other way it could have happened. The fact we are here to observe the universe means that conditions had to be just right - I think this is called the anthropomorphic principal or something. Once the first living cell was formed, the rest was really inevitable I think. As for the big bang and what created or preceded it, who knows? But to have faith that some kind of higher power with a human-like intelligence or benevolence was behind it is pretty absurd in my book. Anyway, the physicists will have this one sussed in a few decades, removing the need for God completely. What place for God and the Church then? 54792[/snapback] Right there i think you've fallen into the trap, they are typically Judeo-Christian images and ideas that you have been influenced by. You imply judgement and redemption, you call it 'human-like' one thing i sure hope it isn't If everything is exactly how it should be, and i presume that goes down to the molecular level, are you not then suggesting some kind of pre-determinism? A lack of free will? Or are we, just the humans, somehow exempt? Doesn't this pre-coding of everything being the only way it could be start suggesting something to you? 54808[/snapback] Well, perhaps if you are more clear on what you mean by the concept of God it would be useful. If he isn't an old man sitting on a cloud, what is he? Perhaps he's merely the fundamental laws of physics. I don't believe in pre-determinism, because there is far too much random chaos in the world to predict anything prospectively. One way or another I think intelligent, sentient beings would have evolved, but they didn't have to be human beings, for instance. But for a random event, we could all be lizards having this discussion. But what I meant was, it is true that several physical variables had to be exactly right in order for us to exist. For instance, the gravitational constant, the weak nuclear force, even the properties of water. The list is endless. Many people have argued this is proof of an intelligent design and creator. But to me, it is proof we live in a Universe that can support us - possibly one of an infinite number. Now infinite universes - that is a head fuck!

And there in lies the problem. And why I despise the fundamentalists on all sides - especially the muslim, jewish and christian zealots who are currently fucking up the world.

Choc Chip: So is that some elaborate piss take then? Forgive the naivity, sometimes it's very hard to tell.

In posts of one sentence or less.

You make some interesting points. The fact that all socieities have a belief in God does not in any way prove that God exists. We have evolved to a social being whose survival depends on mutual co-operation. God is a man-made concept to get people to tow the line - look at the religious rules like don't eat pork - these were all practical advice at the time they were written (although interestingly not all apply now). Also factor in human's terrible fear of death and its not hard to see how the concept of God and heaven arose. I think part of the problem is that human beings have a perception that many unlikely co-incidences would have been necessary to form the world we live in. Not at all, in fact there is no other way it could have happened. The fact we are here to observe the universe means that conditions had to be just right - I think this is called the anthropomorphic principal or something. Once the first living cell was formed, the rest was really inevitable I think. As for the big bang and what created or preceded it, who knows? But to have faith that some kind of higher power with a human-like intelligence or benevolence was behind it is pretty absurd in my book. Anyway, the physicists will have this one sussed in a few decades, removing the need for God completely. What place for God and the Church then?

Benny's a boiler on this PC. For some reason, I have been seeing different avatars depending on which PC I'm using (including my own avatar). Anybody know why? 54704[/snapback] You need to clear your cache more regularly.... 54718[/snapback] I thought only perverts with wives needed to do that? Shit, that's me! 54754[/snapback] Press CTRL+F5. If this works I'm a computer genius. 54770[/snapback] That appears to have worked. Congrats, you are now officially a computer nerd.

I'm shit at these quizzes. Having said that, I bough the Newcastle edition of "Pride" at the weekend, signed by Malcolm McDonald at Fenwicks. It's basically like Trivial Pursuit, but with literally thousands of questions about footy, a third of which are exclusively about Newcastle. Haven't opened it yet, but when I do I could make this thread last for years.....

Benny's a boiler on this PC. For some reason, I have been seeing different avatars depending on which PC I'm using (including my own avatar). Anybody know why? 54704[/snapback] You need to clear your cache more regularly.... 54718[/snapback] I thought only perverts with wives needed to do that? Shit, that's me!

Benny's a boiler on this PC. For some reason, I have been seeing different avatars depending on which PC I'm using (including my own avatar). Anybody know why?

I agree he's a zealot and some of his "this is a fact" rhetoric leaves me uneasy at times but I admire his willingness to stand up and quite literally be a target for stating his views. I wish more people had the courage to stand firm against ignorance. 54513[/snapback] You've hit the nail on the head there, it's his rhetoric dressed up as scientific fact that really grates with me. 54688[/snapback] Care to share any of this rhetoric that's dressed up as fact Bridget? I'm really not sure where you're coming from there? I don't think I have ever heard him say something that wasn't factually correct - well not unless you are going nit-pick on the semantics on what constitutes a fact that is. One of the things he does try to do is get his ideas across using analogies - something I have always felt he has done well, but maybe not it seems.

So Newcastle vs Sunderland isn't a derby?

Hardly comparable. One has substantial evidence and a credible mechanism to support it, the other is pure faith.

How much?

I agree he's a zealot and some of his "this is a fact" rhetoric leaves me uneasy at times but I admire his willingness to stand up and quite literally be a target for stating his views. I wish more people had the courage to stand firm against ignorance. 54513[/snapback] I'm hopefully meeting Dawkins in the New Year. I agree he comes across as a zealot, and maybe a bit smug too, but he's preaching to the converted in my case, so I don't mind much. He married doctor Who's assistant as well. A cave girl iirc.

I think your second paragraph is the most relevant, and why they are different to us. They have a very small support and no football history to talk of at all really. I doubt they will establish themselves in the EPL long-term, but you never know.

Erm, what's the relevance? Surely your not trying to hijack this thread and turn it into an immigrant/PC gone mad one are you?

True. And it was the same as little as three seasons ago. We had bouncebackability.

The lift was fine, the buttons were a bit stiff for him....

No need to move at all if you love yourself. 54480[/snapback] My God you've let these bastids affect your standards. 54483[/snapback] It's true. I've become a pervert.

I remember that one. Had a few people fooled iirc!