Rayvin

Additional context: Carver had a public falling out with one of our players, the fans are turning on the club, we're riven with injuries, we tried to replace Carver and failed, he's lost the dressing room altogether and most importantly, none of the evidence from the previous games we'd played in the past few weeks suggested that we had any fight in us whatsoever. That said, none of this context makes us the worst team in the league. What makes us the worst team in the league is our recent form.

The team we are + Carver is considerably worse than the team we were + Pardew. The team we are + Carver is the worst team in the league. We should expect to lose to everybody in our current form. Not that I think a point was 'head in the clouds optimism' in truth, just not the most likely result if looked at objectively.

That sounds totally standard for about every politician I've ever seen. Right down to immigration.

Had Carver been here all season, do you think they still would be?

Not the form table. That says we're categorically the worst team in the league; even before this defeat.

We are the worst team in the league... http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html

All of this said mind, I still don't begrudge you having your opinion, especially not one that I shared a few weeks back. It's only MT who can rightly claim to have seen this coming. All you've done is cling to hope longer than anyone else - and you may still be right in the end. By the most slender of margins imaginable.

Yeah but it's the more recent weeks thing that has been ours...

Up until very recently, I'd be inclined to agree that yeah, it was always extremely unlikely, from an outsider looking in - even to Ashley apparently - that it'd come to this. But in recent weeks you've been stating that we're going to pick up points etc, when our form has been the worst in the league by far. You've mentioned QPR's form there. It's been better than ours though, is the thing. We are, objectively, the worst team in the entire division. Also, it's not like people have been raving on here and slitting wrists etc - there's been frustration, but as you'll see in the 'should we go down' thread, quite a lot of people actually want us relegated. I can totally see that you've tried to look at this rationally - problem is, this club is nowhere near fucking rational.

This. It's this that I can't take any more. Going down is the only way out of this - a bitter pill, and even then it may not be enough, but there's absolutely no way out while we're in this division. We'll have to stay here while other fans lecture us about 'knowing our place' when we come in 10th-14th for the 27th consecutive season, and I just cannot accept that it's worth supporting a team that aspires to nothing more than that. Championship, maybe even further, whatever it takes. The sooner he's out, the sooner we can actually start to like the club again. And we would get back one day, we're big enough.

Yep, but for me, the main reason for getting rid of Pardew was the fact that he was enabling Ashley to continue with this nightmare. Now he's gone, Ashley is having to live or die by his decisions - and it may end up costing him enough to finally shunt him out. I think I made a post to this respect months back...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to guiltily say yes, I think at this point I'd prefer us to be relegated in order to avoid this shit next year, and also in order to bring about the prospect of something - anything - positive happening to the club. I've had enough years in midtable obscurity now to know that it isn't going to amount to anything.

Does CT actually come on here to talk about football at all any more, or are we just a political discussion medium for him now? I don't think he's even posting in the food thread these days, not that I really keep up with it.

We have nothing to do with the relegation battle, mind. Lots to do with relegation, absolutely nothing to do with battle. We're just cruising steadily on towards oblivion while the others are fighting and raging around us. It is, as Gloom has put it, a Zen like acceptance.

Maybe by now yes, but we definitely would have been in the mix at some point. 7 straight losses last year remember - granted, Carver outdid him, but only by a game.

I think Pardew has provided sufficient evidence in previous seasons to suggest that he was more than capable of getting us entangled in a relegation battle. Is he better than Carver? Yes. Would I be better than Carver? Yes. Does that mean Pardew should have been immune from criticism? No. At the end of the day, nothing was ever going to change with Pardew here. Something has changed now, and in the long run it can only be a good thing, IMO. Darkest before the dawn, etc...

Can't imagine what you were looking for before coming across that particular video...

I thought Ashley had set up a lot of these contracts so that they were heavily performance related...? Or was that just Ba?

Nothing like some sado-masochism to get you going...

Unfortunately, I was preoccupied with wanting to gouge my eyes out after the QPR display. Not the right kind of mindset for anything more enjoyable.

Man Utd fans seem split between wanting to finish strongly like a team of professionals and wanting to throw the game because it'd be funny. I kind of understand that point - imagine it was the other way round - we'd have a fair chunk of people who'd want us to lose the game so that they'd go down. We should probably take it as a compliment. I do think that they'll be playing kids at that point, mind you. It's gonna be an interesting weekend.

Aye that actually might be some manner of adventure, with future prospects to look forward to. Maybe we could ensure a fan held stake in the club to avoid any fuckwits like Ashley ever getting their hands on it again, etc. With the size crowd we have, we'd be back up the divisions in no time. Other teams and the media would give us hell like, but they do that anyway.

That it's come to this...

I use it when I'm in London but haven't up here yet. It's good in the sense that you don't need cash on you since they can just charge your card, you can follow the car's progress on GPS, you rate the driver, etc. I've no sense for how expensive it is really though, as you seem to need to take out a mortgage to use taxis in London in general. We were in it for about an hour trying to get to a bar and it cost about £35...