Rayvin

A testament to how little anyone cares about the euros I think.

CT, putting aside everything else, that last one from the economist. How can that bit about the single market not frighten you? Norway pay 90% of what we do per head for access to a market in which they have no say concerning it's running. That's what we're hoping for as a best case scenario for brexit. And it's fucking terrible. If they make an example of us, which they will have to do, it'll be even worse. They will hurt us. German cars are not as important to Germany as the EU. It is not going to let the EU die, and so it will, absolutely, rightly, and justifiably, kick the fuck out of us. If they don't, if they make leaving look easy, the whole thing will collapse along with 28 other economies. Why would they risk that, they're nowhere near as stupid as we apparently are. Mental stuff, this.

Farage isn't even an MP, how could he be involved at all?

This is a good post, thanks. It is becoming harder to see how the middle class Labour side can co-exist with the working class Labour side. And any Tory with half a brain will want to be as far as possible from the Tory right after this. On the plus side, this is perhaps the change this country has been crying out for. Would far rather the EU wasn't the sacrificial lamb though.

It won't be as simple as that mate. The Tory party is literally tearing itself apart. Most Tory MPs, remember, want to stay in the EU. The Brexit Tories themselves are the ones who are saying we'll need a new GE. No one has a mandate to rule the clusterfuck we're about to live in. I'm not entirely sure people are aware of how seismic this event is...

This is a really fair comment. Agree with pretty much all of it, even the stuff on Corbyn. Would still maintain he was better than the alternatives but that's because I was in the grouping of 'those who were sick of the status quo'

Fair enough - I read this just now in the Guardian about the general feeling in the working classes. Makes sense, and I'd be the first to admit that it's easy to forget how hard things are for some people: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/17/britain-working-class-revolt-eu-referendum Leaving the EU won't improve anything for anyone, least of all the working class, but that's where we are. I'm starting to wonder if Labour will survive this at all actually, I don't know how you reconcile people like you and I, who fall into the more 'lefty', 'bleeding heart', group (probably more me than you!), and the working class who have just turned their backs on progressive policy-making in a fully understandable moment of madness.

Aren't Labour voters still at about 2/3rds for Remain? It's not like Labour has been rapidly losing Remain voters. That said, Rents, for what it's worth, this has shaken my faith in him. I'm hugely pro-Europe and will be gutted if we leave. I wish he'd come out more strongly on this, but given the state of the Tories and the high likelihood that we're getting another general election very soon, I think there's a case to be made for Labour positioning themselves as far outside of this as they can. The were killed in the last GE over the Scotland affair, it'll be hard for anyone to pin this on them. Corbyn has made this all about the Tories. After this all goes down, Corbyn might even look like a viable person to vote for. He hasn't sullied himself in the eyes of the working class in this campaign, and he'll look a fucking load more competent than the Tories to everyone else. For clarity though, that's not worth it for me. I can see his view, if that's it, but I'd rather have the Tories and be in Europe than have Labour and be out.

Can't blame them for saying that though, they got promoted and are rightly sticking behind their own team. Rightly also assuming that their team have more spirit and guts tbh.

I got it now - agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly.

I can't access it for some reason...

That's actually pretty interesting. I suppose there's a few generations worth of gun support to combat really... all the killings don't seem to make much difference though, which is the only odd thing. What do you think it would take to shake people out of it?

I'd agree with that. Britain would have been much the same a century back, and some of it still creeps into our collective consciousness...

Standard operating procedure for such a scenario, of course.

That's true - I'd been starting to think about leaving the UK in the event of Brexit, but options are thin on the ground as Europe suddenly becomes out of bounds. You're right about things going to the dogs in other countries as well, not even Canada is the liberal state it once was.

Just checked the Fox News coverage of the murder of Jo Cox - the comment section is essentially full of people stating that more guns would have allowed her to defend herself, and that this proves that banning guns doesn't make a difference...

Says 17.18 for me. And clearly the hundreds of other Twitter users who are currently verbally tearing @BrexitNowforUK to pieces.

I know it's not related, or at least I hope it isn't, but you're fucking right with this. The last few weeks have made me increasingly ashamed to be British.

What the fuck? That's utterly horrifying.

Is the Brexit brigade that far off the American right wing...? Pro death penalty, 2/3s don't believe in man made climate change, and they all generally believe immigrants are the root of all social ills.

At least it looks as though we'll qualify anyway. Which is an improvement on the last outing. Still not sure there have been any breakaway strong sides in this tournament, could be anyone's really. EDIT - I don't include England in that 'anyone', obviously.

The false flag is much more likely to be effective the other way around - I doubt this will swing anyone over to Remain, and ffs surely politics in the UK isn't that fucked up yet. If it had been an immigrant on a Tory MP though it would have been a hammer blow to Remain, but as it is, I think most people will just consider this guy to be a random nutjob.

England. Why does anyone, anywhere, even bother.

Are you kidding? He actually did that? Fucking hell man.

Yep, the Fish has great taste in wallpaper from memory...