Rayvin

...fuck did Fish do?

At least things are starting to turn around for the campaign. Disaster may yet be averted although fuck knows why anyone else will want us in the EU after this shitshow.

Oh we'll get updates all right...

England are just fucking shite full stop. Well done Wales, a team with a clue.

That sounds bang on, actually.

That's democracy.

He is at least telling the truth, though.

Oh God... It'll be Theresa May won't it...

Much better call to arms, that.

Fair enough - g'night.

I don't think I'd be able to vote for Labour if that happened. I don't think I could consider my views aligned with those who 'flocked' back. I wonder if I'd be alone.

If I believed that elections in this country made the blindest bit of difference, maybe I'd get that point. It wouldn't remove the economic problems of leaving, but it'd be a good political point. But look at our system mate. The Tories won the election by shifting to the centre and beating Labour out of it. Labour tried to clamber back into the centre and failed, ending up with the unelectable Corbyn as leader. People feel Labour should have a centre ground political leader again. Problem is, the Tories are still in the centre. So tell me what meaningful change can come about with both parties vying for the centre. New Labour would have voted TTIP through same as the Tories. Corbyn maybe wouldn't but you and others on here think he's an irrelevance. So what safeguard is he offering exactly? None whatsoever beyond a hypothetical one that involves a series of events you don't feel would ever happen. This is clutching at straws. If you believe that we're better off out of the EU, you're stating that in full knowledge, and indeed full denial of, much of the well researched analysis conducted by experts the world over. That's fine, you're free to do so. And indeed there are even reasons to do so - avoidance of watering down British culture, pride concerning which group of elites tells us what to do, and making sure jobs that British people don't take are not taken by foreigners. But don't go into this thinking that we're all totally wrong in our fears, because we aren't. The only virtue to this is that, given that brexit looks likely, the i told you so's will be all over this thread. No consolation really, but maybe it'll help me explain to my children what the fuck happened when we turned out backs on our friends in Europe due to petty isolationism.

I heard that song today, hence the reference. It's also the Burton Albion club anthem. I know that because I'm a hard-core Albion fan.

I dunno, we look totally ready to go balls deep into TTIP looking at the conservatives presently, and given that we're all certain Labour are unelectable, what difference does any of this even make? Farage and Johnson are going to be in charge of the country now, by the sounds.

So that article sets out that it could be currently vetoed, but that the EU will change it so that it can't be. They haven't yet of course, and so the UK absolutely could veto it. I feel this is a non-argument.

I meant care about what the US/global economists/experts/politicians think. I've assume you care about the debate by virtue of the debate we're having. I assume you don't care what the US thinks.

The French are currently vetoing it ffs, of course we could do the same if we wanted to. The Tories don't want to. This is no different to if we were outside the EU and the Tories were in power. This is a non-argument, surely?

We do have a say... Britain could veto it. We are choosing not to.

Washington has now released a statement setting out that the US ties to Britain will cool significantly if brexit occurs, given that our value to them is as a bridge into Europe. They have expressed deep concern about the developments and the weakening of a key ally (The EU). I know you don't care CT, but honestly, this is going to be a monumental fuck up.

I can't link to it cos I'm on my phone but marina Hyde has just put out an excellent article in the Guardian concerning Nigel Farage and his ascendency to the political crown we're about to give him... It's depressing or course, but worth a read.

It sounds to me like it's over unregulated free trade, compromising consumer standards and health and safety, not to mention agriculture. These are all things we would care about, are they not? This is why the EU works man, our interests are aligned...

Woah hang on, I thought the French temporarily scuppered TTIP. It's on the ropes apparently. Not because we did anything, but because the French kicked it into touch. So actually CT, the EU may well be saving out bacon on that one. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/03/doubts-rise-over-ttip-as-france-threatens-to-block-eu-us-deal

Dammit, they've worked it out! My undying devotion to Burton Albion is exposed, lying bare and naked on the ground! I'm only surprised it took so long...

Echo chamber.