Rayvin

Wow... Corbyn is about to take the whole Labour party hostage. The man has stones after all. Not that this is a good thing...

Nice bit of analysis. Wasn't aware of that. As you say, Sturgeon will take it for all it's worth though.

He'll love that of course. He's building himself a legacy as a 'liberator', in his mind. The Oliver Cromwell of our time is how he'll see himself. I think the GE needs to come in a few months, when people are clear that leaving the EU has become ridiculous. Hopefully no one will push the button until then, which means we need the Tories to elect someone like Hunt, who won't do it. I can't believe some of the posts I'm making in support of Tories now, but it really is that ridiculous a situation.

Good luck to them - hope they get what they want.

This country should never hold a referendum again. What should ultimately happen is that Parliament should suck it up, led by Boris, and come forward to say "actually this is fucking stupid and the choice we've allowed you to make will harm everyone in the country - we've looked at it, which we hadn't done beforehand, and it makes absolutely no sense - so in the interests of the public good, we're not going to implement it". UKIP would be up in arms, but the majority of the public would support that statement if it had cross party backing and featured several prominent Leave campaigners.

Ouch.

Ultimately, Renton and I probably aren't blaming him because we're hoping against hope that someone with an ounce of common sense will come along and see that this is an utter farce. Also, Cameron activating it doesn't help our cause here, as he's gone and finished either way. Him making it a poisoned chalice is the best chance we have. If I was neutral, I would still say that it is reasonable to expect the Leave campaign to have had a plan, but that it was also reasonable to expect Cameron to have had one. As it turns out, he did. To resign.

It's embarrassing, but hopefully the Eurocrats don't judge us all based on him.

I reckon Hunt probably fancies himself for leadership based entirely on the fact that he considers that he 'held his nerve' against the NHS, and can therefore be trusted to get a good deal from Europe. If he does run, that'll be a central pillar of his argument, I'm sure. That aside, did I just see Parky talking up Farage?? True working class hero, Farage.

Fair point I guess, although a depressing one, given that immigration isn't actually what's holding the working class back. Lack of spending on education and infrastructure is more relevant there. I heard some of Corbyn's speech yesterday about investing in education within science and technology, and making the nation prosperous that way. That made sense to me. All of this is depressing as what he says actually makes a lot of sense, he just can't communicate it.

Oh God, Farage isn't there is he? Why oh why is he representing us... Which fucked up constituency voted for him?

I actually think the working class would vote for Corbyn. He didn't come out strongly against the EU, making it clear it needed reform andbdidjt work for many people, and is definitely closer to their interests than the new Labour sect. Its the left wing middle class who can't vote for Corbyn, and whose views he doesn't represent.

That's a pretty good analysis. Quite possible, IMO.

I think they could very possibly have just supported Corbyn up until it became clear (arguably now, but I expect over the next 4 years there would have been other opportunities) that this wasn't working. Had they done this, a leadership contest would have looked far more credible and not the machinations of people who have spent the past year resisting him and actively working towards his demise, to the detriment of the party itself. Basically, had they behaved with any sense of honour, much of this utter fucking chaos would have been avoided. The issue now, for someone like myself at least, is that I no longer want anything to do with Labour. Not because of Corbyn, but because the party seems determined to tear itself asunder. I have lost faith in Corbyn, especially if these rumours about him undermining the Remain campaign are true (would have preferred it if he just came out and said he didn't believe in it rather than actively undermining it), but that pales in comparison to the extent to which I've lost faith in Labour on the whole.

If the car crashes, it'll have been a joint effort in which almost every Labour MP has been complicit. Never will one party have so thoroughly deserved to have been obliterated.

There are no good options. Agree with Gemmill on May, she really is a sociopath. First thing she'd do is abolish the human rights charter and come up with our own version which will doubtless allow waterboarding and the use of water cannons on the general public.

Agreed. And as long as freedom of movement is kept, I'll just pretend the rest of it isn't happening. Possibly by moving to London.

Oh for fucks sake. We can't even turn around and say 'well the rich did this to us, they should pay' this time.

At this point I just hope we get to keep freedom of movement. I'd like as little to change as possible, even if it means Europe thinks we're utterly mental.

I mean, there's nothing left to do now but laugh, really.

He's got to stay on the ticket. To be honest, I think he even deserves to be, as plenty of people seem to want him there. The issue is that Labour can't be a broad church anymore, the referendum has split them. The centre will head off to the Lib Dems, or a pact with the Lib Dems, and Corbyn will keep on the left. The problem though is that the vote will be split, and no one will be able to stop the right wing governments.

Say what?

Labour are finished man, they're done. I was talking to my partner earlier about the very real possibility that we'll have to vote Tory to keep out UKIP...

England Why does anyone bother.