Rayvin

Are they just taking turns?

This sounds enjoyable, albeit against what I assume are shocking opposition.

Agreed one that one. That said, any government that is prepared to sacrifice people to preserve itself is on a slippery slope.

You mean Erdogan will take control?

Thank fuck for that...

Boris has just noticed what's happening and urged all British people to do what the actual foreign office told them to do about an hour ago.

Ok that's not bad actually. Erdogan is a tosser anyway, and seems to be becoming more despotic as time goes on. Won't miss him if this topples him. Just hope it doesn't lead to yet more instability.

Anyone know which way the Turkish military swings? Pro-Russia? Pro-West? Or just anti-Erdogan?

Well if that's true it sounds like it was accomplished with minimal casualties.

Article notes that it's a part of the military, not all of it. I think that's actually worse. That leaves armies on both sides. Hopefully it'll blow over somehow...

Oh fuck off... this is the last thing the world needs.

There are some disturbing reports coming out about the Bataclan murders... doubt they're true, but some investigators claiming that the French government covered up the fact that there were multiple eye gougings and castrations involved as well. I don't expect this was so, as surely some of the survivors would have revealed it, but perhaps this is an escalation in the climate of fear...

Yeah this is very true as well. Like the Orlando guy seems to be. Although we're fucked if your average violent twats are doing this kind of shit now along with the bloody terrorists... Remember that guy who took that plane down a while back too? These people do exist.

I meant more that I'd never particularly considered it. If someone had asked me what the bastion for liberal thinking was, I probably would have said Sweden. For secularism, maybe even China. I do see it for France though, just had never given it much thought. Agree on the rest, but I think the UK method might be more successful in the long and short run. Our values will seep in over time, and it will be harder and harder to radicalise people. In the UK, I suspect we're largely winning that particular battle. In France, there is presumably less tolerance, and therefore no subtle seeping of cultural values. It is, I expect, rather more sledgehammer.

Yes she was actually not very informed from a discussion point of view I have to confess, and I cringed a few times at her arguments. As you say, not aimed at us though. I read that Burke article as well - The idea of France as this bastion of secular, liberal thinking doesn't quite fit my apparently quite Anglo-centric world view, but I can see what they're saying so it was quite eye opening. Good piece.

I've watched the whole thing (was genuinely curious and I'm grateful that you posted it) and it does have a series of much more open and approachable Muslims, prepared to talk about their beliefs, prepared to condemn those that carry out these attacks, and also prepared to accept and respect the laws of the land they live in. One of the Muslim women mentions that 'if you kill another, you kill all of humanity' and states that she doesn't understand where the extremists get their ideas from. In fairness, from what I gather, the extremists get their ideas from the Qu'ran - but even so. It's not all bad is what I'm saying, and they make mention of the fact that those at that march represent only 100ish out of 30,000 Muslims in Luton. Looking at the different viewpoints, I did actually feel that it was harsh to expect moderate Muslims, who sound a lot like typical Christians, to somehow police the extremists. They looked uncomfortable discussing them, and some of the moderates even looked scared to do so. While I still think better integration would be an good idea generally, I'm not sure it would combat extremism after all. Anyway, that was interesting so thanks.

Happy Birthday mate! Have a good one.

Ant my friend, you're a legend.

An elaborate fucking turn to keep the ball in play? The guy can barely fucking move without injuring himself.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html Molonbeek doesn't sound like a police no go zone from this report (given that it mentions that Police patrol it), but that said, seems to be the source of Belgium's Islamist problems. I honestly think the existence of these little communities and the failure to create true integration is a significant problem.

I'm actually a bit surprised we're not there yet already... It actually speaks very well of Western civilisation that there isn't.

Sorry yes, I know I'm wrong automatically by virtue of the fact that these things keep happening - badly worded. I meant that I wonder if there are some potential terrorists who look at the devastation from the fall out of this sort of chaos and just think 'fuck it, not going to be responsible for that'. Ultimately though, if they weren't getting the attention, it probably wouldn't be happening. Fair enough.

That bit is definitely true, although maybe it also puts people off. You never know. Hard to look at this from any angle and consider it as something to be glorified, I would think.

Having kids seems to play a big part in it, actually. I moved down a whole decile for my hypothetical children. I think it should take your region into account as well mind, since an income set at a certain level in the NE goes a lot farther than an income set at the same level in the SE. Although I guess they'd argue that the after tax income is the same, and that you choose to pay a premium to live down south, thus making it a lifestyle choice.