Rayvin

That isn't an argument.

What is everyone so afraid of an EU army for, exactly? How is that any different to a series of smaller armies who would, if Europe was ever invaded, fight collectively against the opposing force? Other than that the latter model would be considerably less efficient.

Do you think she's going to have a stable enough party after all this bloodshed? Some of the commentators are speculating that with a majority of only 12, and now a very likely hostile set of back benchers, she may have to go for an early GE after all...

Who does believe in magical healing water...?

I gather our educational standards are well thought of, and we export a lot of material in that respect. Probably why risking academic research isnt a great idea actually.

Don't think so CT, the left has fractured. In your analogy it would be like a sizeable chunk of the supporter base decided to throw their lot in with Gateshead. Why do you keep trying to persuade us it'll be ok though - you have what you want - endless Tory control as far as the eye can see. That's the main thing brexit has won us. Well played, in all fairness.

Are there any competent politicians left in this country...

The line about dissolving the people is a good point. Also sadly true of the referendum though.

It's the cabinet from hell.

Genuinely worried or hilariously worried?

Did you catch that report about British scientists being dropped from EU projects CT? Appreciate it may have been discussed already. Many of these academic studies receive funding solely from the EU, so we're going to have to make up quite a short fall.

Although you know what, I've just read Owen Smith's speech and he sounds ok. I'll reflect on this more in the build up to the vote. I'd much prefer to vote optimistically.

I know this is directed at NJS, but I would have been receptive to compromise some time back, before this whole thing became ridiculous. I even would have said that the policies are more important than the individual, which I believe to be true. If Angela Eagle had stood up and set out the exact same policies as Corbyn, I likely would have backed her. But after this shit show and the utter contempt with which the PLP are treating the members, I'm now trying really hard to find myself in a position that isn't 'vote for Corbyn out of spite'. I certainly don't think I can trust Labour again.

Agreed, it's not. Anyone interested in the future of the Labour party should have been well invested by now anyway.

No. Labour is dead. We covered this last night.

Why are they so upset about this, that's what I don't get. Allardyce did no better last season than their previous 8 or so managers. His track record is dire and they played shit football. That said it is a mystery from the FA. Didn't one of them come out recently and say that they didn't know very much about football at all though?

'Far' left ideals remain unrealised because no one ever gets a chance to try it - because everyone is told that it doesn't work, and therefore that it can't win. Not because it functionally can't work. Unless you're thinking of Communism (the actual far left, and much farther left than Corbyn), which did fail. But then, so has Neo-Liberalism, and yet here we are...

It did though. This was inevitable as soon as we voted out. Had we stayed in, Corbyn could have spoken out to the working class and better represented them than Labour has managed to do so up until now. But he came too late, and was hamstrung by fuckwits. The conclusion was that the working class took matters into their own hands, threw the country as we know it onto the scrap heap, obliterated Labour, and handed free reign and uninterrupted supremacy to the Tories. I bet they're going to be looked after now though, the Tories always take decisions that work in the favour of those at the bottom, as we know... We all fucking deserve this, that's the mental thing.

I definitely said that bit. I think I was expressing something like 'there's going to be right wing governments for a generation or more'. You argued that this wouldn't be the case. I told you so...

It really didn't mate. It was done the second we voted out. I think I even said so, not that I'm going to wade back through to check. The second the working class threw their lot in with UKIP, and the UK voted out of Europe and thus allowed the possibility of a Scottish referendum again, Labour were done.

Absolutely spot on.

It might if Labour split - imagine if the Tories were fighting off a union of all of these small left wing parties. PR would be inevitable as the Tories would have total control otherwise.

The Labour Party ceased to be after the referendum - it's no more dead now than it was two weeks ago.

Fair fucking point