Rayvin

So obvious that Mario was going to be at the heart of this... the illuminati bastard.

A little help on that one Parky? I'm not seeing whatever it is we're supposed to be seeing...

2700 judges arrested? What did they have to do with anything?

sorry, my statistics isn't good enough to appreciate nuances in humour!

Is it not a group of people judging each one independently? Rather than choosing between the two? Either way it's irrelevant - comres will have its own interests reinforced here.

ewerk moderating everyone's expectations there

Are they just taking turns?

This sounds enjoyable, albeit against what I assume are shocking opposition.

Agreed one that one. That said, any government that is prepared to sacrifice people to preserve itself is on a slippery slope.

You mean Erdogan will take control?

Thank fuck for that...

Boris has just noticed what's happening and urged all British people to do what the actual foreign office told them to do about an hour ago.

Ok that's not bad actually. Erdogan is a tosser anyway, and seems to be becoming more despotic as time goes on. Won't miss him if this topples him. Just hope it doesn't lead to yet more instability.

Anyone know which way the Turkish military swings? Pro-Russia? Pro-West? Or just anti-Erdogan?

Well if that's true it sounds like it was accomplished with minimal casualties.

Article notes that it's a part of the military, not all of it. I think that's actually worse. That leaves armies on both sides. Hopefully it'll blow over somehow...

Oh fuck off... this is the last thing the world needs.

There are some disturbing reports coming out about the Bataclan murders... doubt they're true, but some investigators claiming that the French government covered up the fact that there were multiple eye gougings and castrations involved as well. I don't expect this was so, as surely some of the survivors would have revealed it, but perhaps this is an escalation in the climate of fear...

Yeah this is very true as well. Like the Orlando guy seems to be. Although we're fucked if your average violent twats are doing this kind of shit now along with the bloody terrorists... Remember that guy who took that plane down a while back too? These people do exist.

I meant more that I'd never particularly considered it. If someone had asked me what the bastion for liberal thinking was, I probably would have said Sweden. For secularism, maybe even China. I do see it for France though, just had never given it much thought. Agree on the rest, but I think the UK method might be more successful in the long and short run. Our values will seep in over time, and it will be harder and harder to radicalise people. In the UK, I suspect we're largely winning that particular battle. In France, there is presumably less tolerance, and therefore no subtle seeping of cultural values. It is, I expect, rather more sledgehammer.

Yes she was actually not very informed from a discussion point of view I have to confess, and I cringed a few times at her arguments. As you say, not aimed at us though. I read that Burke article as well - The idea of France as this bastion of secular, liberal thinking doesn't quite fit my apparently quite Anglo-centric world view, but I can see what they're saying so it was quite eye opening. Good piece.

I've watched the whole thing (was genuinely curious and I'm grateful that you posted it) and it does have a series of much more open and approachable Muslims, prepared to talk about their beliefs, prepared to condemn those that carry out these attacks, and also prepared to accept and respect the laws of the land they live in. One of the Muslim women mentions that 'if you kill another, you kill all of humanity' and states that she doesn't understand where the extremists get their ideas from. In fairness, from what I gather, the extremists get their ideas from the Qu'ran - but even so. It's not all bad is what I'm saying, and they make mention of the fact that those at that march represent only 100ish out of 30,000 Muslims in Luton. Looking at the different viewpoints, I did actually feel that it was harsh to expect moderate Muslims, who sound a lot like typical Christians, to somehow police the extremists. They looked uncomfortable discussing them, and some of the moderates even looked scared to do so. While I still think better integration would be an good idea generally, I'm not sure it would combat extremism after all. Anyway, that was interesting so thanks.

Happy Birthday mate! Have a good one.