Rayvin

Figures...

Aye - big club advantage making itself felt...

The joys of the championship

City looking unstoppable as well... Might even be able to enjoy the PL this year.

Man United look like they're going to be the business this year. I thought Ibra might be the latest in a long line of superstar flops but it doesn't look like he will be. Mourinho vs Guardiola will be very interesting. The league wil go to Manchester though, one way or another.

Well, let's not rule anything out...

She's British born and Hong Kong-ese anyway. Has no love of the 'motherland' as they call it. So we're united in this one. If she was mainland Chinese, she'd not be speaking to me following these results.

Wow, we won the Hockey. 2 in front once again. In your FACE, China!

A rare funny from essembee.

How can momentum control everything if they're still bound by the same systems that allowed for the PLP, who formerly 'controlled everything', to fall away? They'd have to change the systems. If they did that, Membership would haemorrhage. Same as what will happen if the PLP change the systems.

I prefer my version anyway.

They were gunning for him long before Brexit, although I can see why people lost faith in him then. I think the real issue here in terms of our outlooks are that you trust these people. And I just don't - which is kind of sad really. It's not a sudden thing for me though, I voted for Labour at the GE but was annoyed at the time as I didn't really believe in anything the Labour Party were saying. I felt that there was no true democracy in this country because all the parties looked the same. Then Corbyn came along. When he goes - and he will - I'll probably go back to feeling like we have no real choice in how anything is run because the whole system is entirely curtailed by the establishment's pre-vetted and accepted options and the bought and paid for media. I'm too cynical to go back to that and embrace it. You have a more optimistic view than I do. I think they're going to cease as a party full stop.

If it was a mistake, and I'm prepared to accept that it might well have been even though we'll never actually know how things would have turned out if the PLP had actually just supported the guy, it should have been allowed to run its course and collapse of its own accord. The PLP, in resisting in the way they are, have ensured that Labour (as CT says) won't get a sniff. Corbyn in power might have cost them one election. What they've done now has probably destroyed the party. If this was a mistake, it was compounded on all sides by political incompetence. I disagree with Corbyn on a number of things and frankly would be happy enough with Smith in and of himself - but the PLP... even if Labour survived this and got rid of Corbyn, I don't think I could vote for them again.

A Trojan horse for what, exactly? 300,000 Trotskyites? Agree on the last bit though, the whole game is fucked now.

Some of those points are interesting and I suspect true, some are ridiculous - the one about his policies for instance. Prior to his election, I read the full policy outlines for all 4 candidates and decided that his were the ones that made most sense to me based on my values - so I know he has policies, I did the reading. Whether I believe any of them or not to one side, if Corbyn is this superbly gifted PR guy, able to counter spin so effectively against the well versed core PLP team, 1) why was he not identified for this purpose years ago and 2) how can that narrative exist alongside the one of him being incompetent with manipulating media opinion?

I'll read that article momentarily but just to advise on your second point; for me, it has nothing to do with Corbyn and everything to do with the wholesale failure of New Labour to stand up for young people, poor people, and the generally disadvantaged when they waved through austerity without challenge. And as I've said on here for the past 3 years at last, austerity failed in general, failed in particular the groups I just mentioned, and was nothing other than a cover for Tory small state ideology. Corbyn was literally the first Labour MP to be elected to a leadership position who was going to stand up to it and call it for what it was - a lie.

FFS.

I did myself concede that it was largely speculation, so I don't disagree. But it raises some really interesting points, nonetheless. Chiefly, as I said, why ARE we having this pointless leadership election? If this goes down in a similar way to what Mason is suggesting, I think it'll be fair to say he had them bang to rights. We don't really need to worry about whether he's right or not, time will prove it one way or the other.

Oh yeah. I'm just going to leave it there.

I have the feeling that a smackdown by Renton is on the way...

I do agree that it's written in the same vein as what we see about Corbyn in the mainstream media, yes. But then again, it doesn't really matter whether or not the author can prove whether or not he's right. We'll see in due course if he is. Something I'd been struggling with was what on earth the PLP thought that this leadership bid was going to achieve. Literally everyone knows Corbyn will win it. So why do it? It's doing more harm than good in terms of 'electability'. But this article puts forward a suggested reason. I'm happy to consider alternatives of course, but it sounds like the sort of Blair era spin/machinations that made them so successful, does it not?

Remember, the bears are more afraid of you than you are of them... maybe...

That is a fucking brilliant article. It's pulled me right back from the brink on the whole affair, actually. I guess a lot of it is speculation, but we'll see how true it proves once the leadership 'contest' is finalised.

Allegedly put a bid in for das Bost... with Leicester also chasing.

Leaving for Champions League football is a bit rich though. To think we had such high hopes for this guy. Sounds like another loan with a buyout clause. We do love those.