Rayvin

If it was a mistake, and I'm prepared to accept that it might well have been even though we'll never actually know how things would have turned out if the PLP had actually just supported the guy, it should have been allowed to run its course and collapse of its own accord. The PLP, in resisting in the way they are, have ensured that Labour (as CT says) won't get a sniff. Corbyn in power might have cost them one election. What they've done now has probably destroyed the party. If this was a mistake, it was compounded on all sides by political incompetence. I disagree with Corbyn on a number of things and frankly would be happy enough with Smith in and of himself - but the PLP... even if Labour survived this and got rid of Corbyn, I don't think I could vote for them again.

A Trojan horse for what, exactly? 300,000 Trotskyites? Agree on the last bit though, the whole game is fucked now.

Some of those points are interesting and I suspect true, some are ridiculous - the one about his policies for instance. Prior to his election, I read the full policy outlines for all 4 candidates and decided that his were the ones that made most sense to me based on my values - so I know he has policies, I did the reading. Whether I believe any of them or not to one side, if Corbyn is this superbly gifted PR guy, able to counter spin so effectively against the well versed core PLP team, 1) why was he not identified for this purpose years ago and 2) how can that narrative exist alongside the one of him being incompetent with manipulating media opinion?

I'll read that article momentarily but just to advise on your second point; for me, it has nothing to do with Corbyn and everything to do with the wholesale failure of New Labour to stand up for young people, poor people, and the generally disadvantaged when they waved through austerity without challenge. And as I've said on here for the past 3 years at last, austerity failed in general, failed in particular the groups I just mentioned, and was nothing other than a cover for Tory small state ideology. Corbyn was literally the first Labour MP to be elected to a leadership position who was going to stand up to it and call it for what it was - a lie.

FFS.

I did myself concede that it was largely speculation, so I don't disagree. But it raises some really interesting points, nonetheless. Chiefly, as I said, why ARE we having this pointless leadership election? If this goes down in a similar way to what Mason is suggesting, I think it'll be fair to say he had them bang to rights. We don't really need to worry about whether he's right or not, time will prove it one way or the other.

Oh yeah. I'm just going to leave it there.

I have the feeling that a smackdown by Renton is on the way...

I do agree that it's written in the same vein as what we see about Corbyn in the mainstream media, yes. But then again, it doesn't really matter whether or not the author can prove whether or not he's right. We'll see in due course if he is. Something I'd been struggling with was what on earth the PLP thought that this leadership bid was going to achieve. Literally everyone knows Corbyn will win it. So why do it? It's doing more harm than good in terms of 'electability'. But this article puts forward a suggested reason. I'm happy to consider alternatives of course, but it sounds like the sort of Blair era spin/machinations that made them so successful, does it not?

Remember, the bears are more afraid of you than you are of them... maybe...

That is a fucking brilliant article. It's pulled me right back from the brink on the whole affair, actually. I guess a lot of it is speculation, but we'll see how true it proves once the leadership 'contest' is finalised.

Allegedly put a bid in for das Bost... with Leicester also chasing.

Leaving for Champions League football is a bit rich though. To think we had such high hopes for this guy. Sounds like another loan with a buyout clause. We do love those.

de Jong on leaving - typos and poor sentence structure belong to the Chronicle: I had given Ajax the first option. Now I hope to get started at PSV. Their ambitions talk to me and they play Champions League. And it would mean that I ‘m going to play together with my brother. That’s a dream Luuk and I have had for some time. I first looked at whether Ajax was interested this summer. I thought that was the right path with my background, for a return to the Netherlands. I had a wonderful time at Ajax – became four times champion, was captain. At PSV they respected that I wanted to give Ajax the first option. Coach Rafael Benitez has said he sees a future for me at the club but feels that I need matches at a level to judge me. And he can’t guarantee me games in the Championship he said.

How the fuck is de Jong going to pass a medical?

I think you've got the scores the wrong way round mate... Unless you're performing some CT style bet hedging here.

Does seem that he's being given free reign here. Being realistic, he's not going to be here for years - something will go wrong somewhere - but if he can set enough positive change in motion before he goes, maybe it'll give us foundations for the future.

Ok so direct football by the sounds. Probably counterattacking then. I think it's going to be a tough game...

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to set out that you guys aren't going to agree... I do share your views on MItrovic though, and I think the stats back up what I've seen from him. I'm sure he'll be a force this year.

What a bizarre thing to say.

There's a few references to Rafa stating that he'll listen to offers for Krul, but I can't see any mention of anyone else.

MF hasn't been around for a while. The boob count on the forum has dropped considerably.

So Liverpool have recouped their mental outlay? Pardew is a fucking moron. I predict Benteke might - maybe - get 10 this season. Maybe. If he's fucking lucky.