Rayvin

Don't worry, I'm abstaining over the Labour leadership vote.

Yeah true enough - merge into the Lib Dems I suppose...? I don't know in truth, it's just hard to imagine how they'll go on from here. They could sit out a few years and return, when Corbynism fails, but I don't think I'd ever vote for them again even with time to let this nonsense fade into memory. They might just give up I guess, and move on to other careers. Unlikely but you never know.

Hah! Fair point. For me though, I don't remember that stuff as it was 30 years ago, so all his politics is new to me

I think split. I think this whole thing has been a precursor for a split with the intent of signalling 'we tried our best' from old-new-labour. I cannot for one second imagine they're just going to fall back into line. As I said, centre left is on the brink.

Thanks for the heads up, sounds interesting. I find myself weirdly drawn to the 'behind the scenes at the library' one. Probably because my career has made me a book obsessive. Less drawn to the Bigg Market Toilets one...

Good grief... I mean, it totally maps to my understanding of how Hillary operates but even so, dismal to read. I think I read that the email stuff was going to be released the day before the election as well? I'm guessing that isn't going to do her any favours. What if he wins?

Well the shambles we've seen from Labour in the past six weeks I suppose is likely to have that effect. Labour are toast, and look unelectable from any vantage point now. The centre-left died (if it ever existed) in the referendum. I have to say though, looking around at the rampant leads far right parties have in the Netherlands and France, the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece and even the challenge to Merkel in Germany, it's not looking good for the left all over the shop. We may very well end up with a Tory party to the left of most of the rest of Europe.

That's way narrower than I thought though. Didn't Trump more or less torpedo his own campaign due to sustained blunders a few weeks back? I thought it was all a foregone conclusion.

Oh bloody hell, I thought you meant turn back to re-do the referendum - like they were now regretting it. I thought that was a bit weird actually, hence my curiosity. Turn it back to 30 years ago is so ridiculous I hadn't even considered it Some people truly are beyond saving.

Wtf? How did that happen?

What kinds of reasons were they giving?

I want to stress for clarity that I was referring to the amount of time it's going to take for them to go through ALL the EU laws and vote them through Parliament again - which they will have to do. Even if the laws remain the same. I'm sure the process for actually leaving will be tied up in reasonably quick fashion, or at least they'll say it has been when it happens, but I honestly think it'll be ages before everything is back into place properly in terms of legislation and process. It's going to cost a fortune in time and resources. EDIT - but otherwise broadly agree with this post.

Compared to 16,000,000 the other way though. It's almost a Sophie's Choice style political problem.

Fair enough.

Basically, this. 'Dracula's Mam' being the highlight of the post, though

You mean privatisation?

You're a bad person.

That sounds like something I might say ffs. Hard to argue with the premise there but I question why this couldn't all have been achieved without leaving the EU? Many of us have been saying things like this for as long as I've been on this forum. You're in effect saying that the people, in voting to leave, demanded that the government sit up and listen. I think that could well be considered a success, if we manage to hold the government to the aim of actually improving people's lives. However, if you and many other 'right wingers' who share your concerns had just thrown your lot in with us 'left wingers' who have been talking about improving these things for years, and brought your pragmatism to combine with our idealism (I'm being generous there ) we could have avoided all of this. Because as you and I both know, from what you're saying anyway, leaving the EU is a symbolic act for the people fighting back - not a practical step in doing so. Effectively what seems to be coming across to me, is that the EU was the first excuse to come up which made it acceptable for the right wing to make ordinary people's lives and rights a focal point without looking like left wingers.

I'm just trying to understand his thinking, really.

Ah so it's actually cheaper for the NHS this way round? I can see that making sense. But what you're proposing effectively means creating a shortfall doesn't it...? Wouldn't that be dangerous? If you were leading it the other way around I would understand, but you're setting out that the government should combat its own policy by limiting immigration. Unless you're thinking that we the people are forcing the government to combat its own policy, which would make more sense I suppose. They'll have to put more money into the NHS budget for training then, I guess.

My Mum is quite an advanced player - also plays violins, pianos, flutes and the harp but her main instrument is the guitar (acoustic though). Needless to say, my musical illiteracy has always been a huge disappointment to her In truth, it's just laziness that ever stopped me, which is a bit shit really. I could do with being as motivated as you guys

I'll concede that I'm just uninformed on this one, but could you set out how we're doing that? It'd help me understand the point you're making.

Are we stopping young women being trained as nurses, or simply not paying them enough for them to want to be nurses? Also, why is this a gendered comment? I think CT might be at odds with Jeremy Hunt and the Tories on this one.

I actually do own an electric guitar (no idea which kind, I'm a total guitar philistine) so maybe I'll try giving it a go again soon. Pretty sure I can get the 'making loud noises' bit down. Coherency would be where I fall down.