Rayvin

I think HF covered that pretty well above. I'm very happy to call it exactly what it is - the massacring of innocent civilians. I'm not trying to justify it. You can't justify it. What you can do though, is look at the underlying factors. You seem to think religion alone is enough to persuade otherwise sane people to blow themselves and other people up. That just doesn't wash for me. If that was all it took, we'd have a fuckton more suicide bombings.

I'm gonna press this, sorry - you know that we created ISIS, right? They filled the power vacuum we left behind following our destructive middle eastern foreign policy. So can we agree on the following - i) these people who hate us on principle do exist and they exist irrespective of what we do or say and ii) they wouldn't have anywhere near as much ammunition against us, as many people in support, and as much operational freedom in the MIddle East, without our disastrous foreign policy? Surely on a rational level, we can all agree on this point? I mean, it's not like we've been fending off terrorism in this country for the centuries that Islam has been in place, is it? It's very much only in the last 20 years, isn't it?

And how did ISIS come to be...? I'm not disagreeing with any of the above, just saying that they wouldn't be in the position they are without everything we did leading up to it.

Cultural Marxism has a lot to answer for in distracting the left from the more important aspects of its political awareness. I suspect Parky would agree here since the term also encompasses feminism. Anyway I basically agree with the caveat that it is actually the West's fault, IMO, that these people are in our countries and blowing us up, and that they'd likely be content to hate us from afar if we weren't meddling. That doesn't mean I hate the West. It just means I think we have the capacity for extreme stupidity in our international politics.

Aye, that's the trajectory exactly. Brilliant. Although it was probably the same on here. Or would have been if Pardew was someone we ever thought could improve players.

Ok thanks, was just gonna post a fairly confused response. I thought your other point about Islam and democracy was interesting though; Indonesia is the closest we get. Although they're technically secular, they have a very large Muslim majority. That's probably something all Islamic countries could aspire to over time.

Oh dear. You'd think a simple bit of Googling...

Started watching this off the back of these comments. Am hooked.

...Yeah I have to read some of this It's willful ignorance otherwise. Thanks lads.

Yeah he's hard work actually, on the reading front. I keep having to stop to look up terms and so on. I'll get there eventually.

I'll make have to make a list Thanks though, I think it'd be genuinely interesting to explore this stuff.

Thanks for that Parky, I'll start educating myself.

I have a book from Slavoj Zizek that I'm working through presently, but he's not really a 'meaning of life' philosopher so much as a political/social one. Anyway, I should read more of what these people say I guess. The Greeks it is.

I'll admit to not being up on my philosophers, I'll have to give it a look. You reckon starting with Sartre then?

I remember that video as well... it's a fucking weird cult Scientology, but it has its fingers all over the place at the moment.

People always strive for meaning, and I think we have less of that now than we've had at any previous point in our existence. Can we cope with the void, is the question?

Aye. All of the near misses I've had as a pedestrian recently have involved cyclists running red lights, so I perhaps lack as much sympathy as I should have. Logically, what you're saying makes sense.

Yeah I've heard it described more as a 'way of life' sort of thing too in truth. Does that mean it's a religion after all then? Might that not make it simply a philosophy?

There's a worrying vision of the future if ever there was one.

I prefer walking but yes, I can see the sense in this. I would cycle if I thought it was safe enough to do so - but it isn't, so I don't.

You're such a bitch.

Buddhism does nod towards that though, doesn't it? Buddha himself appears to be deified as far as I can tell from my wanderings through China.

Oh ffs, we don't need the hidden drama getting them all motivated.