Rayvin

I don't think Corbyn has it in him either fwiw. But it's important to stick with him to stop the Neoliberals taking control of the party back or we'll just get more of this shit. France will go to le Pen I think, and I'm not convinced that Merkel will survive. Not after the Syrian debacle. I just can't believe how quickly the whole thing could fall down. I sort of think parky is right, and that the establishment will have its fightback, but I'm wondering where it will come from...

Yeah I'd agree with that. The left needs to stop the right from being the voice of anti-establishment sentiment though... We need to move quickly.

People on here have suggested Diame in the middle a few times, so I reckon it's worth a try. Might need to go to a high energy style rather than penetrating passing moves though.

Surely, SURELY, we can agree that a Corbyn style figure would be immensely preferable to a Trump? And he's got a better idea of how to sort this shit out than the centre. Deer in the headlights doesn't do centreground politics justice at the minute, they're falling apart all over the place.

This is why I have continued to back Corbyn. The fact is, the establishment know that these people are electable, they just don't want to surrender power.

Well, they do know actually - they've just hit the people doing the shafting square in the jaw. What they don't understand is how or why they're being shafted. Fully agree that Trump is a bizarre person to carry their message, but it doesn't look like they were going to get anyone better, given that Sanders was shot down by the DNC.

Just read that his speech headed off some of the worst of it. It was actually quite gracious, given what's gone before.

I agree - Brexit and Trump are not going to improve our lives. But they were inevitable.

Ok Maybe it's all a bit too raw at the moment. I agree that the people voting for this are the less well educated fwiw - but they're intelligent enough to know when they're being shafted, it would seem.

The electorate had a bigger enemy to slay this time out than Trump. The identity politics drivel just isn't holding water for a lot of people. The MSM isn't either. It's hard to say that these are bad things, people voting past their identities for what they rightly or wrongly consider to be a better future.

Agreed - the thing that's going to be difficult here is persuading people on the left to realign themselves against the centre. The longer they continue to think that this is happening because everyone is racist and bigoted, the longer the right will have control. The ignorance from the educated middle is actually quite surprising (not having a dig at anyone on here, I mean in comment sections on the Guardian and so on - and tbf, mostly younger people).

We did - and I still kinda think they are. Tbf Brexit changed my entire political outlook - it's clear where the problems are and this result just underlines it.

By all accounts, Clinton is the one with that track record. Chin up man, this is infinitely better than the redo in 4 years time would have been.

Good post. The DNC more or less wrote this in the stars with their selection of Clinton.

The message will get through eventually...

It just dawned on me I haven't checked the guardian yet. The wailing and nashing of teeth on there will be a sight to behold... We're in a brave new world now. Would be great if some of you guys in the centre could consider heading left now because really, the centre is fucked.

I didn't think it'd happen night I concede. Just thought it was in the post.

why? Whether now or in 4 years I thought this was inevitable remember? They're just doing what I thought they would.

This too. I did fucking say...

This in a nutshell. But seriously. I didn't expect to see this - not yet. I didn't think the establishment had fucked it this badly yet. Wow.

Well it sounds pretty clear cut to me. As much as it'd be amusing to see this go close, the papers seem quite relaxed about it. Clinton and the status quo. The fabled third term will be achieved. All will be right in the middle classes. And after all, isn't that what matters, in the end?

The Guardian is showing Trump ahead in Florida... not sure how accurate their information is or exactly how this works though. EDIT - it's by district, so is entirely meaningless at this point. False alarm for ewerk

And some possible good news, for a change - the EU has tabled a motion to consider letting British nationals remain EU citizens if desired. I'd be happy to pay tax towards that, frankly: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-freedom-of-movement-passport-how-to-keep-parliament-live-move-abroad-a7405196.html

If there's one thing we excel at as a species, it's breaking through the glass floor of degradation. It'll be someone as bad as Trump but more articulate, IMO.

In the short term, yes. I agree. It's the long term I'm fearful for. Also the tax bit - looks to me like she's eliminating loopholes and making sure the wealthy pay the same as the middle. That's not progressive, that's the minimum standard surely. Progressive would be if she rolled out a tax hike... Have I misread it?