Rayvin

The Fish has now been schooled.

"Today this country faces a crisis as grave as when Churchill vowed we'd fight them on the beaches" Right wing tabloids are the worst

That is genuinely a fucking disgrace. Fucking hell HF, why aren't you up in arms

...I think I've had my fill of this thread for today Also, Renton, I notice you never addressed my points in response to your Hillary and Obama post. Every time I post that you go quiet on it which is fine as long as you don't then bring up the same points in a day or two and claim I never addressed them

Agreed. There's no hope.

I actually don't disagree with any of this, seriously. I've said in a few posts that I can totally see Islam for what it is, and that I think the left handles it really poorly (and hypocritically). My central point, which does appear to be supported to a degree, is that we make ourselves bigger targets through meddling. I sort of wonder if, were we not meddling, we would have to take in as many immigrants as we do. We destabilised Syria, so we get immigrants. We overthrew Saddam, left a power vacuum, and get more immigrants, as ISIS surges forward with no power structures to keep it down. Yes Islam is entirely responsible for its ideology and for the actions they take. Entirely. But we are responsible for making it easier for them to do what they do. Maybe that's how I should argue this in future.

Here man, no one sees you like that I'm sure. If I've implied that in any way in my posts then, and knowing full well Gemmill will take the piss out of me for it, I apologise. I agree with a lot of your views on Islam, as I've said in this thread (which I hope is clear). Literally the only thing you and I seem to disagree on in this respect, is that I think we reap what we sow with Islam to a degree in terms of our repeated destabilizing actions in their countries - and you think they'd be attacking us anyway because they're called to do so. You're absolutely right to put your opinion down on here, and I'm personally grateful that you do. I find it allows me to challenge my views I also appreciate how you don't say you're not smart enough to appreciate how stupid I am

I think his point was more about the potential unseen motives of those leading it, and the extenuating circumstances (personal, economic, and geopolitical) that might make the attackers more susceptible to brainwashing. I don't agree with him on the first bit as I think that they're probably zealots all the way to the top, but it's impossible to know for sure. On the latter bit, I think he has a point - otherwise, as has been said repeatedly to no answer, they'd all be doing it.

Get better internet I video call at work and on a decent connection it's near seamless these days.

If it was that big a risk, Parky would have been exiled years ago. Also, you're supposed to be one of the main protagonists in the expulsion of Leazes

Video call?

I think I asked why you weren't doing it remotely a few weeks back and you cited the audio issue. Apparently the world's need of your analysis is too great as to be disrupted by petty things like production quality

Are you back on the podcast then?

Also, the things we like about the West - liberalism, tolerance and free thought, can all be achieved without the nonsense we get at government level. Our culture predates Neoliberalism.

This article, which I've posted previously, sums up my view. They are actors in the perpetuation of a failing system. I have no strong feelings on either of them beyond the system they represent: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot If I had to choose between all three options, I'd say it's mostly 1 with a slight tendency towards 2 insofar as they know what they're doing, and they do it to remain in the position they're in. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're evil. Just complicit. Our model isn't going to last if it continues to fail.

Sigh... And around we go again... Just because the West is 'better' than these other countries, doesn't mean it isn't something that could be drastically improved, or that it is above criticism. In fact, I would argue that the West is as good as it is despite the way we're run. Agree on the lack of a ME enlightenment.

Hard to argue with Parky on this point tbf. All it seems to do these days is instill victim complexes and make everyone really angry at each other. Although I get all my feminism from the Guardian, so what I see may not be representative.

Ouch.

Would be nice if we were positioned somewhere close so that we could capitalise...

That post is equal parts brilliant and true. Well put, sir.

1 - I'm not middle aged. How dare you. 2 - That's the Guardian ffs. That's the bastion of the very branch of the left wing Gloom was complaining about. Defenders of Islam, Defenders of Feminism. All in the same hypocritical breath. They do great work on a lot of things but their lot in identity politics is utterly dismal. Other than that, I agree that she has more insight into this than we do

I loved the first one. Can't wait to see this

I dunno man - I can see your logic on that but I think you need smaller steps first. That's a really symbolic thing to suddenly wrench away from them. We need to combat the ideology with our own. Why we don't do this, is a mystery.

I think you and I should just accept that, whenever we start debating something, we're probably in agreement from the outset

Sort of agree. Well I do agree to be honest. But at the same time, France is being targeted because of their involvement in Syria. We know this because the terrorists made it clear. Why isn't their president saying that they'll stop interfering in order to safeguard their citizenry? It's probably too late but ffs, the fact that the government response is to throw their hands up and tell everyone that this is just going to happen and act like there's nothing they can do is exactly the sort of response that makes the hard right look viable. Because they fucking will do something. Shouldn't that be a worry?