Rayvin

Are you back on the podcast then?

Also, the things we like about the West - liberalism, tolerance and free thought, can all be achieved without the nonsense we get at government level. Our culture predates Neoliberalism.

This article, which I've posted previously, sums up my view. They are actors in the perpetuation of a failing system. I have no strong feelings on either of them beyond the system they represent: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot If I had to choose between all three options, I'd say it's mostly 1 with a slight tendency towards 2 insofar as they know what they're doing, and they do it to remain in the position they're in. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're evil. Just complicit. Our model isn't going to last if it continues to fail.

Sigh... And around we go again... Just because the West is 'better' than these other countries, doesn't mean it isn't something that could be drastically improved, or that it is above criticism. In fact, I would argue that the West is as good as it is despite the way we're run. Agree on the lack of a ME enlightenment.

Hard to argue with Parky on this point tbf. All it seems to do these days is instill victim complexes and make everyone really angry at each other. Although I get all my feminism from the Guardian, so what I see may not be representative.

Ouch.

Would be nice if we were positioned somewhere close so that we could capitalise...

That post is equal parts brilliant and true. Well put, sir.

1 - I'm not middle aged. How dare you. 2 - That's the Guardian ffs. That's the bastion of the very branch of the left wing Gloom was complaining about. Defenders of Islam, Defenders of Feminism. All in the same hypocritical breath. They do great work on a lot of things but their lot in identity politics is utterly dismal. Other than that, I agree that she has more insight into this than we do

I loved the first one. Can't wait to see this

I dunno man - I can see your logic on that but I think you need smaller steps first. That's a really symbolic thing to suddenly wrench away from them. We need to combat the ideology with our own. Why we don't do this, is a mystery.

I think you and I should just accept that, whenever we start debating something, we're probably in agreement from the outset

Sort of agree. Well I do agree to be honest. But at the same time, France is being targeted because of their involvement in Syria. We know this because the terrorists made it clear. Why isn't their president saying that they'll stop interfering in order to safeguard their citizenry? It's probably too late but ffs, the fact that the government response is to throw their hands up and tell everyone that this is just going to happen and act like there's nothing they can do is exactly the sort of response that makes the hard right look viable. Because they fucking will do something. Shouldn't that be a worry?

Hard left is a bit of a stretch. Feminists aren't hard left. They're soft left with a dose of right wing prudishness. Feminism in this country is for the middle class, by the middle class. Right and left, as Parky said in the other thread, may not be very relevant these days. I'm left wing but identity politics in my view is nothing more than a divisive distraction from the more important issues that people face every day. I'm yet to see it bring about any positive meaningful change; if anything, it's causing even more strife now than we had originally, as we're getting Trump style backlashes against it. All of this is just a massive distraction from the key fucking issues. But yes, the identity politics left does seem to try to protect both feminism and Islam in the same stroke - which is a very difficult position when held up to scrutiny.

I see your point FWIW. I think we should combat what Islam does to women with respect of Burqas and so on by combating the ideology with our own progressive values. Unfortunately, we don't do this. I'm not sure banning it would be helpful though, wouldn't it just entrench antisocial feelings in a community that's already isolated? On the topic of France generally, I was staggered that their PM came out and told the French people that they were just going to have to 'get used to terrorism'. The French are at each other's throats over this as much as we are, possibly even more so.

Yeah but the majority also voted for Brexit... I see your points but let's not pull at that thread...

Great. And yet another fantastic example of Western foreign policy in action, although at least there are no consequences to this on home soil. Apparently.

Not quite there yet on the right/left bit, but I think the battle of our time is between the establishment and everyone else. Broadly agree with the sentiment.

Hillary Benn is apparently going to vote for triggering Article 50.

Yes, that vote last week was deplorable. More evidence of Western meddling.

What's the main cause of the violence in Yemen? The usual Sunni/Shiite thing?

How would a Trump win be better for you personally, out of interest? That sounds like a rare point of policy in what has become a shambles of an election.

Shouldn't be passing it off as his own though... poor form that.

Owen Smith has suggested that we have a second referendum on the back of the Brexit terms. This could lead the way to soft Brexit, with any luck.