Rayvin

https://vine.co/v/eE7JJIejOX0 Sums it up, really.

She's doing so at 9.30am EST according to the Guardian...?

Fair point then - seems highly unlikely that the Founding Fathers would have had it in place for any nefarious reason. I'd imagine it's explained somewhere - maybe it's to do with keeping the needs of less populated states in line with others.

I suspect you'll find that it broadly agrees with you, but that you're using different terms and have a slightly nuanced spin on it Which is what we've established here.

Probably because that would mean the establishment is more at risk of things like this. That's the only conceivable reason, surely. Just because they've been burned this time, doesn't mean it hasn't worked for them in the past.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot For the third time now. Could you at least read it and tell me why you don't agree

Yeah I gather TTIP is dead in the water for sure now. Can't say I'm entirely displeased by that.

Also true. I suppose a lot of the people who've carried Trump here are voting along partisan lines, so this isn't a huge shift. The message is loud and clear mind you...

Good post actually.

Sorry, you have said that before. I agree with you. We're talking about the same thing, and the same phenomenon, with different words. My earlier comment said there was no cabal or conspiracy either. Where you've written globalisation, technological advancement and wealth inequality, I just shorten that to Neoliberalism.

I love this place after disaster scenarios I have to say. It gets me through the day.

Absolutely true, I think a lot of it is that. That's where identity politics has brought us low in amongst everything else. God this is annoying. We have a centreground full of market adoring fuckwits and a left full of identity politics riven navel gazers.

I don't know them all personally, but I think the argument could be made that all people who 'do well' out of the current set up are the elites. As I've said a few times, those people (and you and I might be among them) are now outnumbered. Therefore, we need a system that works for the majority once again. To take a slightly more direct view, Thatcher, Reagan, Blair, Clinton(s) - most of the politicians we've lived under, have been Neoliberals. Do you want me to post that article again? And yes, Trump is an elite. But he appears to be presenting himself as a turncoat elite - someone outside of the political establishment as well. If you think it's crackerjack nonsense then fair enough. I guess you'd argue that despite all the negative media coverage, the people who voted Trump in are just idiots? That will be the prevailing opinion in the establishment I think, so let's see where it leads us. I think we'll lose France for certain, to right wing xenophobia - maybe then we can revisit why this is happening.

Well said. The ignorance and willful refusal to see the problems is impressive.

That wouldn't work. I play in the actual centre, whereas you lot all drift out to the right

It's incredibly close, isn't it... less than 100,000 people in it, presently.

I think the argument would be that the elites' handle on power was not all encompassing, but done through media sleight of hand and voting systems that more or less restrict people's options in terms of who to have represent them. FPTP in a two party system, etc. There has always been a remote chance for something like this - and maybe there had to be for people to buy into it - but the eventuality we have experienced was considered highly improbable. It's also not really a conspiracy, at least not in my mind. It's a group of people so wedded to their market theories that they can't see all those being left behind, and the populist anger this is causing. They need to adapt and change, but have refused to do so - likely fuelled by the fact that they would personally lose out.

Absolutely true. Really do wonder what he will be able to get done from his list of policies...

Corbyn isn't hard left, man. He's standing more or less slap bang in the middle of where the centreground should be. Before the markets hijacked it.

From Corbyn who, once again, hits the nail on the head: Many in Britain and elsewhere will be understandably shocked by Donald Trump’s victory in the US presidential election, the rhetoric around it and what the election result means for the rest of the world, as well as America. Trump’s election is an unmistakable rejection of a political establishment and an economic system that simply isn’t working for most people. It is one that has delivered escalating inequality and stagnating or falling living standards for the majority, both in the US and Britain. This is a rejection of a failed economic consensus and a governing elite that has been seen not to have listened. And the public anger that has propelled Donald Trump to office has been reflected in political upheavals across the world. But some of Trump’s answers to the big questions facing America, and the divisive rhetoric around them, are clearly wrong. I have no doubt, however, that the decency and common sense of the American people will prevail, and we send our solidarity to a nation of migrants, innovators and democrats. After this latest global wake up call, the need for a real alternative to a failed economic and political system could not be clearer. That alternative must be based on working together, social justice and economic renewal, rather than sowing fear and division. And the solutions we offer have to improve the lives of everyone, not pit one group of people against another. Americans have made their choice. The urgent necessity is now for us all to work across continents to tackle our common global challenges: to secure peace, take action on climate change and deliver economic prosperity and justice.

Yeah the shitlords are going to be loving this. I might tune in a bit later to see the carnage...

I don't think Corbyn has it in him either fwiw. But it's important to stick with him to stop the Neoliberals taking control of the party back or we'll just get more of this shit. France will go to le Pen I think, and I'm not convinced that Merkel will survive. Not after the Syrian debacle. I just can't believe how quickly the whole thing could fall down. I sort of think parky is right, and that the establishment will have its fightback, but I'm wondering where it will come from...

Yeah I'd agree with that. The left needs to stop the right from being the voice of anti-establishment sentiment though... We need to move quickly.

People on here have suggested Diame in the middle a few times, so I reckon it's worth a try. Might need to go to a high energy style rather than penetrating passing moves though.

Surely, SURELY, we can agree that a Corbyn style figure would be immensely preferable to a Trump? And he's got a better idea of how to sort this shit out than the centre. Deer in the headlights doesn't do centreground politics justice at the minute, they're falling apart all over the place.