Rayvin

Is it though? It's not like we even really care about this game now, is it? I don't... We may as well be playing Rotherham for all I care. I think that's a shame!

Thinking about it, I genuinely wouldn't mind seeing Leeds in the PL again. I've always expected them to come back up again and am surprised that they still haven't managed it.

Parky would probably be heading it up.

That's fucking disgraceful

The question then becomes, who would the last person left be? HF, SEW, Parky or myself? Possibly Gemmill as well, as a dark horse.

Neither of you It's just that we're arguing amongst each other because the easier target isn't here.

I see, so she's a nobody? Great Fair point

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Will be interesting to see how far gun crimes rise, and how they distort reporting on the figures, when this goes through.

Who is she? Other than Vince McMahon's wife (which is a sexist way of referring to her Howay - the identity politics police would be all over you for that!)

It's all going to end up like some kind of dystopian future isn't it?

Oh... those would be such bad choices. The Democrats going celebrity populist would not be pretty...

He surely can't go back to politics after this?

I absolutely agree tbh, I'm just saying that our strategy for combating this (and this really isn't directed at anyone on here given that we're all just venting, more the progressive media) is to call everyone idiots and assume that they'll come around to our way of thinking... Quite possible tbf, I just think there might be a wider issue at hand here. This isn't a trend that is limited to the US - there is a global rejection of the established order throughout the West. If France elects Le Pen, I really, genuinely think we're going to have to wake up to the fact that our system has to change.

I don't think you're rampaging across the board, although I'm a bit stunned that this issue hasn't sorted itself out yet. SEW is definitely trying to wind you up mind - I think this is the CT absence effect. You've effectively become one of the more right wing people on the board by his absence. Which isn't to say you're right wing, I don't think you are, but comparatively, you're nearer to it than most of the handful of other people who really engage in political discussion. I much prefer the level of debate we're having these days though, I'm actually learning things from people - so I would request that you don't quit the board, and stay here and argue with us

ewerk proposing that the solution here is to ignore what people are actually saying about why they voted for Trump, and simply assume that they're idiots. I wonder how many more Brexits and Trumps it will take before we, the liberal middle classes, start listening to people? There's a lot more we can still lose, you know? Would it hurt to just accept that our worldview isn't all encompassing? I read the article and think she has some points. Economically, she appears to be putting over the view that things were shit under Obama, they're unlikely to get worse under Trump. And that's before her other concerns.

That makes more sense I guess. Fair play to her for putting principle above identity.

Even I have to concede that it's hard to fathom how someone in that identity bracket could imagine Trump being better than Clinton...

No doubts there.

Interesting that the MSM has now picked up on the Alt-Right. Breitbart has been going for years and is a rather depressing news source in terms of their inflammatory language. The Alt-Right is absolutely, 100%, the response to 'progressivism', political correctness and identity politics though. They've been key in pulling the lower wage workers who should be voting left, over to the right. Although in fairness, the 'left' was pushing them that way as well.

The second amendment was going nowhere, it's not like Obama managed to touch it while he was in power. As for abortion 1) they can still go to other states and 2) a large number of Americans are pro-life. Yes it's far from ideal, but nothing covered there strikes me as something out of the ordinary for a republican candidate.

I don't see it. So he's not repealing gay marriage, and he's leaving abortion law to individual states...? That doesn't seem like the end of the world. If anything he's abdicating responsibility on both issues. Mike Pence is another issue of course.

Not so much for his economic insight, just because he's one of the few people I can see talking about it. I agree he's no economist though. Also agree that you need some aspect of self-interest otherwise human progress pretty much stops on its head - will readily appreciate any books you would recommend on this.

Who does that

I think we've just unleashed the beast tbh...

I know you're all sick of me harping on about Neoliberalism, but here's another article from Monbiot again, in today's Guardian. Covers the origins, how Thatcher apparently slammed Hayek's (who is responsible for all of this, the fucker) book on the table at one of her early meetings after taking over the Tories, and said 'this is what we believe now'. Also spans the failure of Blair's third way (although mentions that it was always going to fail given that Neoliberalism was in the ascendency and social democracy was dying). Covers the election of Trump, why this was both inevitable and a disaster (though I'd argue it was necessary to wake people the fuck up). The debate should be happening around stuff like this IMO. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/14/neoliberalsim-donald-trump-george-monbiot