Rayvin

Rogue One was, mercifully, a good film. Felt much more like 'Starwars' than TFA did. I now have some hope for the franchise again. Would probably give it 8.5/10

If Shelvey's claim was that the exchange never took place, then he wouldn't be able to bring that accusation. We probably would have had to raise it at the time anyway.

I absolutely do blame Cameron for this tbf. For the referendum, for austerity, for all of it. He is the personification of side of the establishment that brought us here.

Who do you blame? The people in power or the people who they failed? It's a tough one...

You joke but I am resolute in my belief that the establishment did indeed deliver us those things

I get what you're saying now yeah. And yeah, I know what you mean but if he'd lamped Shelvey he'd have been facing a hefty ban himself...

Yeah but being bald isn't the same as racism I guess. Racism is probably a more serious category of division than...hairism?

True, but it would see us into January and potential transfers to cover the issue. Although a 5 game ban seems to be a fairly trivial reason to buy someone, especially given that we're not actually imperilled in the auto-promotion stakes.

I half think that he had his previous red rescinded so that they could appear impartial for this one. At the end of the day, if he said something racist or whatever the claim is, he should be suspended for it. We're good enough to manage without him IMO. That said, does the 7 day appeal period mean he can play in our next game?

You could argue Chelsea won the CL that way too. Probably about right.

But surely the study isn't looking to determine any sense of objective reality, it's looking entirely at people's perceptions of something - of which their bias is fundamentally important, is it not?

Surely it's only meaningless if you consider the 'left' and the 'right' to be static points on the political spectrum. If they move with the mood and 'perception' of the people, as I suspect they do, then this graph would appear to suggest that where 'the people' view the centreground to be is to the left of where 'the media' as a collective position themselves. Why would the study be impossible to control?

The argument there I suppose would be that despite everything, Sunderland have superior 'season management' and do just enough to survive rather than look at the overall points tally.

Also interesting. So if I'm interpreting that correctly, it's setting out that we believe our media is too right wing? If so, why do we keep voting right wing... I know that should feel self explanatory, but if we're astute enough to see that it IS right wing, how come we aren't voting contrary to that? Or is the argument that we're acknowledging the right wing bias but voting with it anyway.

It was never going to last

Be vigilant around any Christmas markets, seems to be the advice. The US has said as much to its citizens.

Can I just point out that this has been one of the most informed, civilised and reasonable discussions I've seen on here. Which is remarkable when you consider that both toonotl and HF are involved and what their history is Is it cos it's Christmas? Also, fwiw I think you've all made some superb points, many of which I agree with. Even Gloom's That is both fascinating and likely, IMO. I would argue that, while I aim to be vigilant against such things, that manner of phenomenon is likely to have happened to me in the past. I think it's important to read multiple news sources to combat this, but I must say that I do tend to just read a couple these days. But then, discussions on here perhaps make up for that and prevent the 'echo chamber' mentality.

Most likely to be rounded up by jihadists and the CIA. Damn straight that'd be Parky. I love how no one is sticking to Gloom's framework

Of course they'd start to rack up the body count at Christmas. Why is it we don't want Russia to blow ISIS back to the stone age again?

Islamist. Better than some of the alternatives.

Well that's not good... I really hope it was an Islamist, someone we can all rally around the condemnation of.

That one made sense to me mind, I love Akhbars too.

This is going to be politicised to high hell IMO: Fatih Öke, the press attache of Turkey’s embassy in Washington DC, wrote on Twitter: “The bullet to Ambassador Karlov is not only aims him. It aims also Turkish Russian relation. We are praying for his good health and peace.”

Here we go: Claims gunman shouted ‘Aleppo’ as he shot Andrei Karlov in an Ankara art gallery

Um, no, not this one. Turkey and Russia are supposedly enjoying good relations after the EU's alienation and Turkey's move towards being a police state, with or without the MSM. No clue what could have motivated this. Parky will probably be along to say it's a false flag though...