Rayvin

I follow him pretty religiously these days actually. Don't agree with him a lot ( EU referendum) but feel like listening to educated commentary from outside established media is important. That said, I think he's wrong sometimes, and that he lets his biases cloud his judgement on occasion.

I thought the issue was the lying part?

China All fur coat and no knickers, I think the saying is.

Really good video from Sargon on Corbyn. And FYI, he's ripping into my views, not yours.

FWIW mate, I'm in Newcastle East. My vote doesn't matter in the slightest. The day Newcastle East doesn't go Labour, is the day Labour doesn't exist. As frustrating as I find that, I'm of no consequence whatsoever to the wider issues here.

I have next to no idea what you're even referring to now, but am aware that you're principal focus is to wind me up It's funny enough, though

I don't agree that my approach there is a sabotage job whatsoever, and ultimately can't see how you've come to the conclusions you have done over the last few pages. I'm voting based on what I believe in, and have consistently stated as much for the past couple of years. If Labour move away from my position on the political spectrum, why should they expect to have my vote? Why would any political party expect that? As for the views on whether or not Corbyn would survive, I don't think he will. But while he's still there, I feel it is appropriate that I continue paying towards the party. Because ultimately, I did vote for this. I'm now convinced that I never said anything about not voting for Corbyn at a GE though. I thought that would have been out of character... Your problem with my position, I think, is that I won't compromise. And fine, that's a fair criticism. But the rest of what we've discussed here doesn't hold IMO.

Who knows, I'm struggling to follow the logical progression of any of this.

Yes, but that was in the last leadership election... because the cost of him being in power isn't being borne by me, and I was sensitive to fact that other people have a harder time of it than I do. But that didn't mean I suddenly stopped agreeing with his policies. I said this at the time as well. In fact, I largely came to this conclusion following a discussion with ewerk. My view was that if the rest of the membership voted him in, then I would carry on supporting him. This is fucking bizarre, I genuinely don't understand why you think that's equivalent to me saying I wouldn't vote for Labour in a GE.

Well as I say, I can't remember saying it. It's certainly not a position I feel I hold presently so I can't imagine holding it previously. At best I've just said something ridiculous in the heat of the moment (but I'd be interested to see the post).

Are you sure I didn't say that I wouldn't vote for them once they'd ousted Corbyn? Because, as I've said before, my membership is contingent on them putting forward policies I agree with. As does my vote. If they replace him and I still agree with the policies, I'll vote for them. If not, both my vote and membership go. If I've ever said that I have no intention of voting for them while Corbyn was in charge, then I either misspoke or was high or something. I don't remember it though.

With generations like yours, who needs the Tories?

I would suggest that the big concern now is that they're entirely disillusioned with politics/democracy, having seen it for the absolute farce that it is.

I'd agree if that's all there was to it (I remain a member fwiw). But if they're leaving because of Brexit or because Corbyn isn't performing in the way they wanted, surely that's acceptable? Corbyn hasn't worked out at all, but it's not like any of them would know he wouldn't going into it. Even at the second time he was voted in, the PLP had done such a shit job at winning people over across the previous year that it was totally fair to put the party's woes down to that. And I still think that got us halfway to where we are. Call them naive if you like, but I don't think they did anything wrong by rallying behind someone who they genuinely thought could offer positive change.

Heaven forbid young people become motivated to involve themselves

I'm really glad I'm not mixed up in this particular discussion.

So you're saying that it is a big deal? Cards on the table, I genuinely don't know HF made it sound like this happens a lot. Not saying that makes it better, but does it usually attract this level of coverage? If it does then fair enough.

Do we know when Gayle is likely to be back? i.e. will it be in time for Reading?

Don't I know it

Also true, but it'd be quite the statement of confidence for the EU at the same time.

Would it wipe out the SNP? I'm not sure it would, there's a lot of animosity towards Labour now.

I see, makes more sense now then. Still not a big deal though in terms of anything politically meaningful, beyond the usual 'we can't trust politicians', right?

Agree on the new party aspect. I've always felt the Lib Dems did more to split Labour's vote than anything else, so merging with them in some form might be a decent way forward if achievable.

I think we'll lose this one, purely on the basis that winning it would put all of our worries to bed, and that's just not how this club works.