Rayvin

So you're saying that it is a big deal? Cards on the table, I genuinely don't know HF made it sound like this happens a lot. Not saying that makes it better, but does it usually attract this level of coverage? If it does then fair enough.

Do we know when Gayle is likely to be back? i.e. will it be in time for Reading?

Don't I know it

Also true, but it'd be quite the statement of confidence for the EU at the same time.

Would it wipe out the SNP? I'm not sure it would, there's a lot of animosity towards Labour now.

I see, makes more sense now then. Still not a big deal though in terms of anything politically meaningful, beyond the usual 'we can't trust politicians', right?

Agree on the new party aspect. I've always felt the Lib Dems did more to split Labour's vote than anything else, so merging with them in some form might be a decent way forward if achievable.

I think we'll lose this one, purely on the basis that winning it would put all of our worries to bed, and that's just not how this club works.

Still about a third of Labour voters voted out though... I wouldn't say they've all gone for UKIP.

What is the deal with all these Russian contacts though? It's not actually a crime, apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k572wTlfWj8

I wonder this sometimes too - the only thing I can think is that having one allows for consistency through the club, and makes the manager more expendable. If results take a poor turn and the fans are crowing, the manager can be pushed out without destabilising the club's long term vision - a new manager can be brought in who aligns more closely with that vision than might have been secured otherwise. That's really all I can think of.

I also think that the moment things really went wrong was when Brown resigned immediately. Had he stayed on, Labour would have been able to actually resist and challenge the Tory narrative on austerity. It took months to replace him and the narrative was set and unchallenged by that point. Game already lost before Miliband even started (in defence of him, at least).

I think it's worth considering that Labour did a lot of things right while in power. And at the time, I had no complaint whatsoever (beyond Iraq) - I would still argue that Labour improved a number of vital public services and generally made things better for people. The problem is one that I don't actually really blame them for as it's only really visible with hindsight. The alienation of their core voter base, and decision to stick with Neoliberal principles when it came to austerity (which is the issue I consider they hold 'no different position from the Tories' on, at least under Miliband), is what we are now being punished for. So maybe 'blame' isn't the right word, but it tends to come up because of the need to 'blame' Corbyn. The truth is probably more as Renton has put it before. The world has changed, the negative effects of globalisation and rampant neolib (Thatcherite) policies are being felt by many more people than had previously been the case. Labour backed the wrong horse with austerity IMO, but at the end of the day this whole event may have come to pass anyway. If I blame them for anything it's losing the argument on austerity. And Gloom, you've agreed on that point before if I recall. So, they've been unlucky in how the world panned out, and they made some poor decisions. It doesn't change that they did a lot of good, but it does limit how relevant that 'good' is now.

Fitting

Howay clearly the spiritual leader of team willy waver.

It's their second string though. Doubt any of this will have much influence on anything.

Might be able to swing tomorrow depending on how the day goes.

Yep, nice to see some proper journalism.

Aye but they don't have enough prisons for people like that to go in.

You just know he's tempted

We opted not to do a prize pool largely because no one said anything in support of the suggestion. I'm up for it in subsequent seasons though.

I think this is probably why they don't do audience phone ins on this sort of thing. They'd all be calling out the pundits.

Steak and Tomato Sauce A Trump steak presumably?

The prediction league has been pretty successful tbf. A decent core of us have kept at it. The fact that there's so little between most of us suggests that we're all a fairly consistent level of accuracy though. Maybe next year we should do 3 points for an exact score rather than 2? Not sure how much that would change anything in fairness.