Rayvin

Nicely put.

What would you have us do, exactly? The alternative to looking at why this is happening, for me, is to pretend it isn't.

If Trump manages to dismantle the media in the next 4 years before he's thrown out on his arse at the next election, I'll be amazed. It still won't make my concerns about the media incorrect though. 1 - I don't believe the mainstream media is delivering fake news, for the most part. Fake news, in my view, is just total fabrications. I think the media hide things (and distort an individual's understanding of an event through the inclusion of unrelated issues in reports about certain events) in service of their biases and ideological standpoints. Sometimes they can't do this, because the event is too large, but normally they can. We deride the Daily Mail for this quite often - and rightly so. But I've seen the Guardian do the same thing. The Independent. The BBC. They all do it. And it's all in aid of a bias. The problem comes in that when something happens, when views come forward, that are outside of their window of acceptability (Overton Window), they are suddenly ALL doing this. Thus they can be bundled together. But when they're all doing it, and a large number of people hold the views that they aren't putting forward, they're then actively pushing those people away. They're othering them. Then you get Trump, Brexit, and general backlash. I don't have to think up a solution for this, we'll get one either way. As it stands, it looks as though MSM circulation will continue to fall, and people will get their news elsewhere. Alternatively the media could change and move away from their ideologies, but I think that's unlikely from what we're seeing. 2 - Even if they're really minor things, in your view, how are the example I posted to you 'telling it like it is'. We're going to lose because of this shit you know.

I'm not taking any offence I'm open to my mind being changed as ever, I'm just seeing nothing from the media to suggest that they aren't behaving in the way that I think they are. I want to stress that I'm not suggesting you or anyone in your office is actively working for some nefarious purpose. I just think the media has become an echo chamber for itself, and that the longer this continues, the worse this is going to get.

My concern is with the MSM for two reasons: 1 - They're alienating a large number of people who are being pushed into the arms of the very thing you're concerned about. 2 - They're advocating for a system that is, in my view, no longer fit for purpose - and in need of urgent reform. Failure to do so pushes people into the arms of the very thing you're concerned about. I do not want right wing, climate and vaccine denying nutjobs running the free world. My concern is not that he is popular, it's that we 'sensible' people who are left aghast at the recent developments are learning nothing from any of this. And that's principally because the media have been going through a period of unadulterated hysteria. Because Trump is a threat to their ideology.

It implies everything I think it says. Juhel Miah and a group of children and other teachers were about to take off from Iceland on 16 February on their way to the US when he was removed from the plane at Reykjavik. The previous week, on the 10 February, a US appeals court had upheld a decision to suspend Donald Trump’s executive order that temporarily banned entry to the country from seven Muslim-majority countries. Why drop the above in if unrelated. They know exactly how people will read that. They ran other articles about this as well. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-taken-off-us-bound-flight-i-was-treated-like-a-criminal https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-denied-us-entry-i-felt-powerless-video If this is a totally normal thing, why report on it so consistently now? The Indy here as well: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslim-teacher-juhel-miah-us-school-llangatwg-comprehensive-aberdulais-trip-america-pupils-a7590876.html I don't understand the willful ignorance here on this - it's patently obvious stuff.

Honestly mate, it's because some people are wedded to the status quo. That's literally what it is. Clinton was acceptable in this guise, Corbyn is not. I would suggest that the people who are considered 'acceptable' are established by the media, but that just re-opens the same can of worms.

I fucking told you it'd be a pointless exercise. I'm not trying to demonstrate media corruption. I'm just not. I've said multiple times what I'm trying to convey, and the evidence I provided firmly supports that. There was another example last week, although I don't have the same level of detail available on it. That British teacher who was denied entry to the US; this was set out by the media as having been a direct result of the ban. Ewerk was saying that this sort of thing happens all the time though. Now, I don't know for sure that it does and am just going off Ewerk - but it sounds about right to me and other people have said this too. IF that's true, then the media have again omitted a crucial detail in order to point the blame at Trump. Here is the Guardian's article on it. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/20/british-muslim-teacher-denied-entry-to-us-on-school-trip I don't understand why you're ok with this happening. It's misrepresentation of reality, and more than anything else, it's fucking transparent. Which means they're discrediting themselves in a crucial moment in history.

Fair assessment. Ideology seems to trump pragmatism and compassion with the Tories.

Sigh... I haven't used the term 'fake news' once. I've said 'lying by omission'. That said: I raised on here a few weeks ago that the media response to Trump's immigration controls was disproportionate. Many outlets in the media were portraying the countries selected as entirely arbitrary at best, or a form of corruption (countries where Trump does business were exempt) at worst. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-majority-countries-donald-trump-travel-ban-immigration-entry-visa-three-main-countries-exempt-a7552526.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/countries-where-trump-does-business-are-not-hit-by-new-travel-restrictions/2017/01/28/dd40535a-e56b-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html?utm_term=.39277420051f https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/saudi-arabia-egypt-excluded-from-trumps-ban https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/opinion/who-hasnt-trump-banned-people-from-places-where-hes-made-money.html So the last two of those are opinion pieces, but I don't actually understand why you think these shouldn't be considered (the first two aren't - they're reports which cover the issue factually but still manage to lie through omission). They are written by journalists who form part of the media, and are published for a reason - to flesh out the headline story with narrative and ideological detail. Maybe this is where the media is missing something actually - Gloom, do you believe that the general public sees opinion pieces as entirely benign and not an attempt to mould public opinion? If so, and if this is a view shared by other people working in media, this is why so many people think you're pushing narratives and trying to control the discourse. After the initial shitstorm about this decision, and the Op Ed pieces had finished their circulation span, we then saw articles being rolled out explaining the actual truth behind the decision. 3 days later. Why is this acceptable? Surely holding this information back, and this was information that was known to the media because the 7 countries were selected very recently by Obama, to no outcry whatsoever, is lying by omission? http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/how-the-trump-administration-chose-the-7-countries/

Interesting insight here from a Leicester forum - the OP claims that Ranieri abandoned the high press which has cost them. They reverted to it against Liverpool, and were successful. I didn't see the game so I don't know, but does that sound feasible? https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/111135-theyve-all-got-it-backwards/

There is literally no point in me doing this. I've flagged it up multiple times in this thread already in the past few weeks. HF has done the same for different issues. You guys don't want to hear it.

That's because you think I'm inferring some kind of conspiracy. As I've said before, it's about ideology. And look, you don't have to take my word for it apparently. The polls support the view that the MSM has lost touch in general - at some point, there will have to be a shift in how the media operates which will address this, or they will very literally become obsolete. They allowed themselves to become a collective because almost all of them went for Trump. So he bundled them together, they all perpetuated their own overreactions and shitstorms, and thus they all came together into one collective entity. I would say this was the case but more subtle before Trump (collective in the sense of ideological alignment in a broad sense), but it looks more extreme since him. Trump is outside of their Overton window. That's the issue IMO. They don't have to report on the ignorance. They have to do things such as give historical context behind some of the decisions made by Trump (i.e. Obama laid the groundwork, or this has happened in the past and is nothing new, etc). They haven't done that. They've treated each action as if it were a new 'assault' on their ideological beliefs.

Pathetic if true. What could they possibly have against the guy?

I genuinely think he believes this stuff. Or rather, someone on his team will tell him this and he won't challenge it. Willful ignorance presumably.

I don't trust the MSM and I'm not in the same intelligence bracket as most of the people who voted for Trump. They really are losing the battle here, and it's because they're trying to direct public opinion rather than report it. I've seen them lie several times about Trump (usually by omission) and while you've attempted to defend them each time, I remain unconvinced. They are, as far as I can see, acting like the opposition party. Why they feel this is their place in the whole matter is entirely beyond me, as the more they do it, the more Trump can characterise them as the enemy. Turkeys and christmas come to mind.

Way to go MSM. Clearly winning the battle here...

What in fuck was that even about. I understand that someone had a bagel on their head... why did that start fights?

The US has the best tech. That might count for everything in the end.

Kinda hope that doesn't happen as we'll just end up with an aggressive, insanely armed state with an interest in upsetting the established order of the world.

Knackers.

A stimulus to the economy if nothing else. Also a statement to the rest of the world. The concern here is that it triggers an arms race. Presumably this is in aid of bolstering the US nuke totals?

The university normally sends out guidance on this with a company they recommend using. I wouldn't worry.