Rayvin

What's the minimum posting threshold for entry to the 'secret forum' then I'm guessing it's around the 20k mark and thus that I've no hope of ever getting there, but i'm curious nonetheless.

I suppose they'd make the case of 'where does it end?' What if a Tynesider was refereeing a Forest (or now Villa) game and had to make a decision concerning Lansbury. You'd hope they get it right but who knows. Although to be honest, I sometimes wonder if anyone who gets into refereeing even likes football to start with.

I appreciate it's too late, I'm just saying that it would be immensely satisfying to hear it. Because it's true.

Have to say, not convinced by the dabbing thing. Looks desperate. The TV debates might be his best chance actually, since he's apparently very good at those. God what I wouldn't give to see a TV debate where someone from Labour didn't duck the question on the economy and simply said that the Tories and their narrative were wrong.

Agree in principle but it's a lot to achieve in 6 weeks.

It wasn't even that big a deal, just a great thread

Well yes, I agree whole-heartedly (though I'd call that Neoliberalism).

Aye, at the end of it you could argue this will make him fairer to us. He's a professional who won't want to come out of that game under claims of cheating - not even for the club he supports.

True enough. But the Remainer Tories won't vote Corbyn. Suppose they could go Lib Dem.

It genuinely has to be the case that either the Tories have a natural bias, something intrinsic in the human condition, that is on their side. Because it just doesn't make any sense why so many people like CT would vote for them otherwise. What does he gain from it? What single thing does anyone like CT gain from voting Tory? I suppose if that were true they'd never lose mind. We need a compelling narrative more than anything, and I just can't think of any room to manoeuvre on this. Labour ceded austerity, and then they ceded Brexit. As such, there is no platform for them to actually attack from.

Does it look wrong though?

Progressive alliance perhaps overstated in usefulness: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/apr/20/tactical-voting-to-beat-the-tories-does-the-maths-equal-a-coalition I feel that this ignores the implications of Brexit, but even so it's a grim read.

Yes I know but I'm prone to bouts of occasional dysphoria on issues like this. I would also argue that while I understand the reasons for Brexit, many of those reasons go out of the window when you're talking about voting for the Tory party, which so many appear to be doing. I can't reconcile voting Tory with the same reasons people voted Brexit. I can reconcile it with irrational tribalism over the whole issue though. As I've said, the other parties aren't going to undo Brexit. As for the anti-establishment aspect, how well or otherwise he put it over doesn't change the fact that Brexit stole his thunder IMO.

Just been reading Corbyn's opening statements for the whole thing. I actually suspect he's right to try and open up fronts on a few different issues as the Tories are failing all over the place really, but he has a long slog ahead of him. He's also trying to capture the anti-establishment mood which I think will fall flat - principally because Brexit captured that. Without Brexit, I actually think this rhetoric would have hammered the Tories.

If the North votes Tory in any significant numbers then we're as dumb as they think we are. Hopefully it's a bridge too far for them.

Then, clearly, they aren't as bothered about securing the best possible future for the country as they claim to be.

Generally agree - it's a dishonest move. But ffs, we are where we are because we're the only ones playing by the rules anymore. 'Anything it takes' should be the mantra at this point. Hopefully they're doing deals in the background.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/19/greens-urge-labour-and-lib-dems-to-form-electoral-pact-to-defeat-tories That's that, then - Labour and Liberals reject election pact.

I'm finding myself drifting to the Gemmill position here tbh. There's a not insignificant part of me that hopes the Tories win so resoundingly that they feel entirely able to obliterate these communities who seem to think that the EU is why they're miserable. Fucking pillocks, to a man.

The extremely wealthy Hartlepool considering voting Tory, apparently. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/19/hartlepool-ponders-a-change-after-half-a-century-voting-labour Makes sense given how affluent the area is and how much they've benefited from 10 years of Tory rule, the useless fucking incompetents. “I’m going to vote Tory purely because I voted to leave,” said Simpson, a council worker and former Labour voter. “The people in government should abide by the decision the British people made – we voted to leave. There’s some Labour MPs trying to block us leaving. If the vote had gone the other way would they have blocked that too?” This is a potential source of optimism though, because it suggests that Corbyn potentially is taking the right approach in not being seen to 'oppose' Brexit. Maybe he can reach out to people like this fuckwit.

If they go back to the centre they'll lose members hand over fist. Maybe they won't care about that I suppose, but I suspect the reality is that it'd hit their budgets (Especially since the army of members they have is keeping them on a level footing with the Tories). I intended to vote for Cooper the first time around before ultimately deciding that I preferred Corbyn's policy positions. She would be a good choice though. Problem is that if you accept that Labour have to go back to being full on Neolib, who else do they have left of any real merit?

At least that sounds like a positive outcome

That should be gold