Rayvin

Have to say you've lost me there Parky, what exactly do you think is going to happen then?

Osborne is gone. Good riddance. EDIT - although he probably would be a moderate in the whole Brexit issue ffs.

To be fair, you're right. May calling this election now is actually giving hope where there was none, rather than taking something new away. That said, if/when they win, it'll be the start of a new Tory era. I wonder how easy it'll be to become Scottish when they leave. I hope they make it easy.

Um, I think there's plenty of reason to worry - although I've said a few times that I can see a positive outcome here if the centre left parties throw in together. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/19/coalition-collaboration-tactical-voting-stop-hard-brexit

Interesting. Rather grim outlook for Labour there I'd say, although entirely possible. All the more need for a union IMO, to stop the 15% swing seats from being vulnerable to non-Tory parties.

I suspect they'll have to go for Labour - they can't go for the Tories. I see them as the working class vote sucking wing of the Tories now. The only way that helps us is that it might split the Brexiters between Tory and UKIP in seats where we need Labour to win. The downside is that UKIP might pick up some seats - and that if they do, May might have to compromise with them to form a government. Which means effectively increasing the size of her 'loony fringe' within the Tory party.

If Huddersfield falter I think the crowd will be well up for it, but we're a nervy bunch when the pressure is on and if they win and we go in goalless at half time against Preston, it'll be tough going. Switching to euphoria if we score though Doubt Preston could come back if we score first.

Possibly true but as mentioned, the Liberals are poised to take about 25 seats straight back from the Tories after last time out. So May has to be counting on taking seats off Labour. If what you say is true, that'll be challenging. I can't quite see the north voting Tory in numbers that will throw core Labour seats out, but who knows these days. Labour will lose out to UKIP if anyone, but fortunately they look totally wrong footed by this. I think we can safely rely on the SNP to take literally every seat in Scotland. EDIT - also not a case of reversing Brexit. It's about making it non-suicidal.

You think so? This is a tough one, the downsides of leaving the EU are so much more real than the usual vague promises and soundbite shit that politicians in this country normally serve up. The Remain Tories won't vote Labour but they just fucking might vote Liberal. Labour have no path to power here so they can't be that worried about Corbyn getting in - they just need to dismantle May's majority, that's all it'll take for a better outcome to be realised. I genuinely think there's a win in here if the centre left can get the narrative right, but they need to unify for it to work.

It's like the DM itself is part of this discussion. Just missing the sidebar with voyeuristic shots of half naked women, really.

No it wasn't, but the Tories would have looked incredibly foolish if soft Brexit was what they delivered to us. Nothing would have changed except we'd have lost power and influence. Now, you and I are prepared to accept that because we know the alternative is worse, and that this was all crazy. But the Tories know that this would be a) something that even the stupid people would be able to see through and b ) that there would be no one they could blame but themselves, thus destroying their 'competent governing' image. So they're going hardline because the party is more important than the country. EDIT - There absolutely is a case to be made for soft Brexit IMO. The Tories can't make it, but everyone else can and should. And they should hold up the Tories as the model of government, party politics led incompetence, while they do it.

The Greens have come out with the right approach: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/19/greens-urge-labour-and-lib-dems-to-form-electoral-pact-to-defeat-tories A progressive alliance wherein they, Labour and the Libs don't contest each other's seats. I'm sure it'll be thrown out by Labour but it fucking shouldn't be.

You're using other people as an excuse to bring her up now. Dedicated.

I think realistically the Norwegian model was a hard sell because it would actually have meant no difference whatsoever apart from that we'd have looked like fucking idiots. Hard Brexit allows us to look a little less like fucking idiots (as we're actually getting some manner of discernible difference) at the cost of making us look delusional. But either way, I suspect the Tories realised that the country had been made fools of in the referendum and that they needed to choose the least bad option in terms of how people would view them.

Aye, that makes sense about UKIP. Realistically, I don't believe that 52% of the country wanted out of Europe. I do think that 52% of the country were incredibly pissed off. UKIP have always been a protest party, Brexit was a protest movement... but the establishment own it firmly now. Just can't see the same numbers turning up for it. But the remainers will, probably to a man. Last chance to avert catastrophe.

You were ensnared by the generally superior political discussion on here I reckon

Yeah that's true, but we haven't exactly been calm and collected under pressure, and the pressure would be on if they win.

I think it should be exactly what you've set out - They've already lost the people prepared to let immigration become an issue as they've maintained their view that immigration is positive for the country as a whole throughout all of this, so they have little further to lose there. Corbyn will have some traction with the working class, those intelligent enough to actually listen to what he's saying. But that said, they may be an absolute write off, and we'll have to hope that they aren't motivated to turn out in the same numbers as they did for the referendum. Things that might be relevant: 1 - Will the working class swallow their tribalism and vote Tory? 2 - Will the north? 3 - Will UKIP be able to mount a viable campaign? They didn't seem pleased by this announcement. 4 - Can Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP find common ground? Ideally, I would want all resources for each party to be thrown into the seats they can take off the Tories rather than each other. The Lib Dems attack on the MIddle England front and Labour try to consolidate what they can in the North and urban centres. SNP just repeat what they've managed in Scotland.

I think the Noelie threat level prediction is a nice touch actually. It's going to be unpleasant if we lose and Huds win, mind.

So you made an account back in 2007 and just remembered us, 10 years on Mackem or not, that's actually quite impressive.

If we got him involved, on stage with Corbyn, Labour would be unstoppable.

Fine, they can rebrand it. Call it the 'People's Brexit' or something. They could demonstrate that those who want Hard Brexit are rich landowners in the country who will either benefit or will be fine with it as they're rich enough to cope. Other the fuck out of the hard Brexiters.

Which is fine because actually, that's what it'll take to win it. Soft Brexit allows for the will of the people nonsense to be maintained while also ensuring that basically nothing changes - which is what we want. Surely 52% of the country didn't vote for cutting ALL ties with Europe, and if no party is going to go for a reversal, the Remainers will go for the least bad option.

I think the best we can hope for is that they have a good rethink over the next few days. That speech was all soundbites, it sounds as though it's caught them cold.