Rayvin

I suspect the issue is a wider lack of political will rather than no one knowing what to do about it. It's not like it's an unsolvable equation, we just don't have a government with the stones to do what needs to be done. More long term vision needed. As an aside, CT, let's just accept that Corbyn will lose. What do you think happens after that? Assuming he stands down, which isn't actually a given. The people 'holding' Labour to ransom aren't going to depart the party. They aren't suddenly going to wake up and decide that the Blairite vision is the one true way. So the party stays over on the left, by most reasonable measures, I would think. Maybe a slight compromise position in an attempt at unity, but policies remain broadly the same. If the Blairites can't find a home there, they split out. Maybe join the Liberals, maybe forge something new, maybe die off altogether. Either way, the centre left vote is split three ways. None would be able to challenge the Tories. The SNP will take Scotland out of the union, and this further reduces any likely progressive or liberal action. I guess from here... then what? Who displaces the Tories (incidentally the coalition was a Tory government in policy so I'm treating it as such in name)? You'll argue that the left will wake up from it's delusions and will become pragmatic again but there's no real guarantee of that, and the numbers in the party of stacked against such a thing. I suspect we're condemned to years upon years of incompetent, ideology driven governing. EDIT - As an aside, to everyone else, I'm actually genuinely interested in the answer to this rather than getting sucked into more back and forth (which I really should avoid as I do enough of that anyway).

You're right, sorry.

Actually just to query a point, are you saying that a clear and professional vision is currently in place with respect of the NHS? Because it looks like an absolute shambles at the minute, but maybe that's just because I'm blinkered.

Well there will

You think so huh? You reckon Scotland will break away? I'm hoping it does. We have a one party state anyway, may as well seal the deal and just call this a 'democracy' in the same sense that China calls itself one. It's the end of history in the UK and wouldn't you know it, the super wealthy were right all along.

Ah yeah, I recognise Palin and Kid Rock now

I don't know who any of those people are save Trump.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he said something about wandering off into the sunset with Meenzer as a LD once Corbyn was on the scene.

I don't think so. It'd have to be Liberal wouldn't it? Which is still a suitable solution as long as it doesn't enable a Tory. Honestly I couldn't care less who between Corbyn and Farron 'wins' the election as long as one of them does. Obviously neither will, but even so.

There'll be some manner of procedural reason. Not saying it'll stand up to scrutiny but there'll be something.

I suppose it'd be pointless to have a secret forum that the whole userbase could post in though

This is turning into something out of Inception now

Not exactly a new viewpoint though. I daresay Renton would say the same thing, and it does appear to be the challenge. I wonder if anyone proposing not to vote for him will actually listen to what he says? Or will they just read about it in the Mail.

What's the minimum posting threshold for entry to the 'secret forum' then I'm guessing it's around the 20k mark and thus that I've no hope of ever getting there, but i'm curious nonetheless.

I suppose they'd make the case of 'where does it end?' What if a Tynesider was refereeing a Forest (or now Villa) game and had to make a decision concerning Lansbury. You'd hope they get it right but who knows. Although to be honest, I sometimes wonder if anyone who gets into refereeing even likes football to start with.

I appreciate it's too late, I'm just saying that it would be immensely satisfying to hear it. Because it's true.

Have to say, not convinced by the dabbing thing. Looks desperate. The TV debates might be his best chance actually, since he's apparently very good at those. God what I wouldn't give to see a TV debate where someone from Labour didn't duck the question on the economy and simply said that the Tories and their narrative were wrong.

Agree in principle but it's a lot to achieve in 6 weeks.

It wasn't even that big a deal, just a great thread

Well yes, I agree whole-heartedly (though I'd call that Neoliberalism).

Aye, at the end of it you could argue this will make him fairer to us. He's a professional who won't want to come out of that game under claims of cheating - not even for the club he supports.

True enough. But the Remainer Tories won't vote Corbyn. Suppose they could go Lib Dem.