Rayvin

After all the shit I've given New Labour, Neoliberalism, and the fundamental failings of our system, what kind of monumental hypocritical arsehole would I be if I then voted for the same people? 'Grow up' ffs. No.

Corbyn stood with no prospect of being elected, as he saw it. Sounds as though it was simply something those on the left did every time just to make sure the others paid lipservice to left wing idealism. I doubt he wanted this any more than you wanted him. However, it's hard to deny the fact that a lot of people backed him and that if he had not seen this through, he would have looked an absolute charlatan. He was voted in because people were sick of the failures of the alternative. Blaming him for the failures of those who came before, is pointless. All that is going to happen following this election, is that Labour will lose - Corbyn will stand down, or at least very probably will - and members will desert Labour in their droves. You'll get your party back, they will go back to being able to challenge the Tories with their own, slightly nuanced version of Neoliberalism, and nothing will change. It'll be like it was all a bad dream and nothing more. In the meantime, once that happens, I probably just won't vote. Because it looks absolutely pointless for someone with my views.

I don't agree for all the previous reasons I've given over the last two years. You're basically suggesting that Corbyn should have stood down immediately after being elected, as that would be the only way to avert Brexit (which I've given evidence previously to suggest, would have made no difference to the outcome unless you think Labour voters are on par with the Greens in terms of the proportion who could be persuaded to vote Remain). How on earth would that farce have helped the Labour party? Following the leadership election you've got more of a case, but at the end of the day the PLP fucked that up by jumping the gun after months of bitching about his election. I think I read somewhere that the Tories know from experience that you have to wait two years to oust a leader. Moreover, Corbyn was returned with an even bigger majority. So who does Labour belong to, if not it's members? You can absolutely blame the people who voted Corbyn, such as myself and most of the Labour supporting people I know. Still think you'd be wrong, but at least the argument would make logical sense - asking Corbyn to disavow the principles he stood for in an election that he won by a landslide does not make sense. However, these people voted for him because of how let down they were by the previous Labour regime. And since Miliband introduced the mechanism by which Corbyn came to power (as well as overseeing the party that refused to challenge the rhetoric on austerity, and in so doing abandoned it's working class base), ultimately, I think you'd have to say that he's responsible. But that's just for the Labour Party. Ultimately, the people responsible for the Tories winning this election, and Brexit itself, are the people who voted for those things. I have no blood on my hands.

It was a fantastic film actually Better than the first one which was decent.

I suppose. UKIP have a lot to fucking answer for.

Why though, given that Labour have committed to pushing Brexit through also? Surely UKIP have more in common with Labour in terms of their voter base, than the Tories?

Oh really? I missed that. So they're literally allowing their party to fall apart on the sacrificial altar of the Tories? Cowards.

Point of reflection - if UKIP are dying on the arses (as seems to be the case), does that help Labour? Are working class people in the North seriously about to vote Tory?

Yep, they've obliterated UKIP by the looks of it. And probably Labour on this showing. I dunno, if this many turkeys want Christmas, what can you say? As Gloom noted yesterday, TT simply isn't representative of the general population. I suspect the difference can be predominantly measured in IQ. I wonder how bad things have to get before people would stop voting for the Tories...

True Geordie could maybe be persuaded I suppose Although he's on big money now, it might be beneath him...

Democracy

Aye, well played HF.

Utter knob-ends, the FA.

Well the Guardian getting 'on message' about Corbyn is a good thing, even if they have been part of the problem up until now.

I actually thought they turned them on under those circumstances. More clicks etc.

Aye, well, as I said, didn't expect it to be a significant contribution. I'm actually surprised it's as many as that tbf.

Ok, if only 1/10 students actually vote, I'll concede that you guys are the arbiters of realism

True. I suppose the other thing here is that if we spent the money we'd have at the end of this year, we're always playing catch up. Maybe this is what Charnley was getting at, maybe we have to consolidate this year and spend next year

How come? The interest rates?

So you're a glass half empty kind of guy, huh?

9 out of 10 students have now registered to vote, and 55% of them will vote Labour. Tories a distant second at 18%. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/04/voter-registration-soars-students-backing-labour-corbyn-general-election Nice to see, albeit not hugely relevant in the broader sense of the election.

I have a Greek friend who absolutely despises Varoufakis

Gosh you're salty this morning.

I thought that was the figure HF arrived at as well mind...