Rayvin

Ok but... Wolfy, you're now saying something that we can see with our own eyes isn't real and is a distortion of the light as it hits our eyes. That's a level up from 'everyone is lying to us' - you're now saying we can't even trust our own senses. On that basis, surely if you did go to space, and did observe the earth as a sphere, couldn't you just argue that it remained a trick of the light?

Have to say we're far more likely to go for a foreign, overseas model. At £20m maybe we can make that work but still...

Surely no way we should be blowing £30m on one player...

Well, that and the fact that the financial crisis happened on Labour's watch (not that they were responsible for it). The Tories would have never been elected without it though, so it's hard to imagine a scenario where they're in charge for such a melt down. Or it would have been, until Brexit.

Somewhat wishful thinking but agreed, that's special

Indeed. If it was made up, then the guy who made him up instead becomes the most influential person throughout all of human history. Either way, someone is responsible for it whether the man himself or the guy who invented him. 2000 years man In 2000 years from now, will anyone from this time period be remembered (in the same sense) at all? The only person I can think of is Trump, and only if he triggers some form of event which brings about the end of existence. And even then, no one would be left to remember him anyway!

You do love to twist my words. It could distort inflation considerably, yes. Presumably the BOE would be able to regulate this to a degree though? And if it went up 69% we'd be in real trouble.

I can see that from a logical point of view but your average guy on the street won't have a clue who Constantine was. Jesus is known throughout the world, has had wars fought in his name hundreds of years after his death, and still to this day has millions of people worshipping him. The more I think about it, the more astounding it becomes.

There is evidence that he was a real person, and accounts outside of christianity to corroborate it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died I'm personally fairly certain he existed, everything he is supposed to be notwithstanding. What I find remarkable about the whole thing is that this one man has probably had the biggest influence on the world, for the longest period of time, of anyone who has ever lived. I wonder if, at the time, he had any concept at all of what he would become.

The only positive impact on the people on benefits would be to encourage those few who are just idle to actually find a job, so yes, I'd agree otherwise. One thing with raising it quickly though - you're saying it's gone up 69%. That would beat inflation comfortably, and would mean that actually, in the short to medium term, it has made people better off.

If everyone gets a two quid rise, the business owners are worse off. At least temporarily, anyway (before pricing adjusts itself to reflect the new levels of wealth present through society). The real purpose of minimum wage, I think, is to protect workers in an environment where we have more capacity than demand. If we pegged CEO salaries against staff incomes, we'd actually be able to address actual inequality to a degree. Raising minimum wage sounds good but achieves little. That said, every time it goes up in our company we have to pay a good number of other people more as well, in order to keep up pay bandings and employee motivation to excel. Once you get to executive level though, the difference becomes irrelevant - the pay is so much higher that it doesn't really even matter.

If we sent you up into space, and you were able to look at the earth, would you believe it then? As another question, what would it do to your worldview if you were given incontrovertible proof of the earth being a sphere? To answer the same question from the other side, if I was given absolute proof that the earth was flat, it would probably cave in all remaining trust (little as it is) that I have in any information given to us in society. Principally because for such a secret to have been kept, you would need an entire class of people living separate from the rest of us. No one from our 'group' could ever be allowed to reach a position where they could independently verify this for themselves or the secret would be out. It would actually be a Matrix style reckoning. I consider it absolutely implausible that none of the people who are in positions where they are able to verify whether or not the earth is a sphere would not have shared this, so it would have to be an international conspiracy aimed at maintaining a divide between two class groups.

Actually quite pleased about that

That said, I think this is an elaborate ruse to wind up enough people that they all chip in to get him into one of the first commercial spacecraft

There was an actual experiment done to prove the curvature of the earth. It can be easily redone. The Bedford level experiment I think? Guy in a boat in a canal. The canal stretches off into the distance and the guy disappears over the end of it as he hits the horizon. Proving that the earth can't be flat. You or I could replicate this easily.

Yeah you'll be right. Fucking weird battle to choose otherwise.

Wolfy - I still don't fully get why this issue is the one to dig your heels in on. I mean, if you're going to challenge everything we're told, why not claim we're in the Matrix or be a scientologist or something? And the other thing. Many people believe in the flat earth theory - which means you're unlikely to have just come up with it yourself. That being the case, someone has presumably informed you on it. Why are they more trustworthy than anyone else? Why can you trust what these people say and not scientists? Unless you've reasoned this out from scratch independently of the others who believe it, in which case fair enough.

What was his justification for her release?

Fucking hell.

Nah I'm trying to argue less on here anyway. Was just interested in his motivations for believing what he does. I agree with what you've said here btw, but also can't help vaguely admiring someone prepared to go against the grain on conventional thought - as long as it's well reasoned.

I don't even entirely disagree with the premise that we're all schooled in a certain direction as far as thoughts go, and that deviating from this and arriving at our own conclusions is important. I just don't get why this issue is the hill to die on, so to speak. But maybe that's what makes your position genuine.

I wasn't here last time wolfy was commenting and he's the first flat earther I've ever had any dialogue with I dunno what the Fish' excuse is though.

So you don't believe this due to the need to justify some manner of shady global conspiracy seeking to protect its own interests, you actually consider that the science alone isn't sufficient to support the 'spherical globe in space' argument. You have no agenda beyond this, you just don't believe what we're told. I actually consider that to be somewhat brave but it would also depend on how important this stuff is to your sense of self. Does this stuff define you, or is it just something you believe while living an otherwise entirely standard life?