Rayvin

How on earth has he managed to fall this hard. It's actually incredible. He could have just kept his head down, been a league 1/championship level forward, picked up at least £10k/week for basically his entire career, and then retired with a comfy nest egg to fall back on. Instead he's thrown it all away. Wouldn't be surprised to hear of him again in future - in fact, I suspect this is all because he knows he's fucked it up.

I'll try and join you for some of it!

Hang on though, I'm familiar with that poll too and I'm fairly certain that the 34% statistic is in reference to Muslims who would report someone going to Syria to become a terrorist. Now, we could argue that's still wrong but they'd see it as picking sides in a war. As far as I'm aware, the poll makes no mention of how Muslims would respond to domestic terror incidents. I can't check it atm so let me know if I'm wrong. Moreover, this remains 'not the time' for assuming blame. There's plenty of it to go around anyway.

Agreed. Have been somewhat impressed by this statement from Paul Ryan of all people. Far better than Trump's equivalent: The whole House of Representatives extends its condolences to the families of the victims. Our prayers are especially with those who are still searching for their children. I don’t know – maybe it’s because I am a father of teenagers, but that is the part that keeps me coming back to this. I mean, think about the kids who had this date on their calendar circled. Think about the kids who got their parents to agree to take them to the concert. Or maybe it was a birthday present, or maybe it was a surprise. Or think about the kids who went to the concert with their friends on the agreement that they would get together and meet their parents outside right after it. Those are the kinds of conversations that go on in families with teenagers. And then all those moms and dads waiting outside when disaster struck – think about that for a second. Many rushing in, hoping to God and fearing the worst. To deliberately target innocent children is cowardice in its most heinous form. So we should not be surprised that Isis has claimed responsibility for this attack. But we will never bow or bend to radical Islamic terror. In Manchester, we have seen hotels taking in survivors. We have seen local residents offering beds to those who are stranded. We have seen taxi cabs driving back and forth through the night, offering free rides to bring people to safety. And as we speak, people on social media are reaching out to connect families with their loved ones. Terror is a threat that we all face together – and with our might, and with our humanity too. In that spirit, I want to express solidarity of the whole House of Representatives to prime minister May and her government. We stand ready to help in any way we can. Because freedom, compassion, and peace will always prevail over violence and hate.

This is from a columnist for the Telegraph...

I suppose so... I dunno, I kind of feel as though something has to give in terms of how we handle this because honestly, we don't appear to be doing anything other than attempting to respond and increasing surveillance powers. There needs to be an active strategy.

Aye, I concede it isn't realistic - not clear on what's wrong with it in principle though, if anyone wants to help me out?

Um, they'd be "disappearing" themselves still wouldn't they? I'm not suggesting that the state kills them here, just that if they do it, we simply refuse to name them. Or is that still problematic? An alternative would be that we name them but give no airtime whatsoever to their motive. Or even give them an unrelated motive.

Was thinking about this earlier - why don't we just stop naming them? We could stop noting their affiliation, their names, anything about them. If we do that, their political statement doesn't stand. Might even force them to pre-announce their intent somewhere that the police might be able to pick up on ahead of time. Probably all wishful thinking but I'm coming around to idea of simply making them anonymous nobodies.

Now isn't the time for assigning blame like, it's too raw. Eventually though, there is going to be an awkward conversation about this - not because it's necessarily merited, I might add.

Right, so we even have recent precedent to demonstrate why this would be a bad idea. Aye exactly. Although at the end of the day we aren't powerless here. We're choosing to remain tolerant, and I think that's laudable.

Fair enough point but for who? If we do it now, we're going to end up targeting 'certain communities', which is arguably only going to make the problem worse.

Aye, I get the sentiment but that's the path down towards a police state.

Aye, I think everyone on here is on the right side of this election, with a notable and starkly obvious exception.

How are they even allowed to print that? I mean, I just don't get it - surely for their fallacies and 'fake news' they'd have to be a ring of truth somewhere, but as you say, they flat out contradict their own headline.

Fair enough. I tend to reach for practical solutions when things like this happen but I have to confess I've struggled with this one. What can you do against such unfeeling hatred?

It's ok, I'll advocate on their behalf "They are true socialists comrade, the spirit of revolution burns deep within them both"

Makes a bit more sense now then. Maybe a review is needed on exiting, although I imagine that would cause massive delays for everyone. I'd be happy to pay that price in time spent personally though, given the alternative.

Aren't they supposed to bag check everyone at these events anyway? Surely this shows that the security measures ahead of such events need to be tightened up. I mean, I dunno how obvious a nail bomb would be, but still.

Agree on this too - you'd hope that they've saturated the public with tales about Corbyn by now. Maybe that will actually have done him a favour in the long run. All of this said though, we're running out of time and all it's going to take is one set back for Labour to lose a lot of the momentum they had. I'd be keeping Abbot far away from the press at this point.

Yep, just a question of whether or not she sinks fast enough for it to make a difference. I have to say though, it's not necessarily only a win if Corbyn ends up in No. 10. If we can stop a Tory majority, that's a win too.

Well I can certainly agree with that.

'Watch the world burn' kinda thing? I get that. I laughed when Trump was elected The thing is, I actually can't conceive of what would happen were Corbyn to win. It's just so unlikely.

Corbyn. I'm not actually a Sargon acolyte Sargon's views on this whole matter miss the point, possibly because he's pushing his immigration narrative. Either way, he arrived at a very different conclusion to me looking at how the world has emerged from the referendum, and I flatly disagree with him on his assessment of UK politics.